To think nursery should owe me a day for Boxing Day when they're closed!

[purplebaubles]

DD attends nursery just two days a week - Thursday and a Friday.

Just been informed that they are closed on the Thursday (Boxing Day) - no problem. So I said, I'd send her Monday and Friday that week instead.

I've been told it's tough and we'll just lose the day but still have to pay for it?!

I work term time only, so don't get paid in the holidays.

AIBU to think that they should owe me a day, given I'm paying for it?

I might add, normally (i.e not Christmas week!) they're dead flexible if I need to change days.

Oh and considering the OP has the DC un the nursery for just 2 days, I'd say she spends plenty if tine with them otherwise.

Here's another way to look at it. We're about to enter December. For those posters who are employed, imagine that you go into work on Monday and your employer says "we've just realised that in December you'll be working several days less than normal so we'll be paying you 10/15% less".

What would you say? Would it be "right-oh!" or would it be "oh, I think we need to see what the contract says"?

The point here is what's been agreed to.

Same policy at my nursery, and the reason I don't work on Mondays. Our nursery workers do get paid for bank holidays though. Doesn't bother me, it was clearly in the contract.

I don't think YABU purple. Why should you pay for something you're not getting?

Yes, the nursery is a business. That means you pay for a service and they provide it. Not you pay and they don't bother. How/what they pay their workers (or not) on a day they choose to close is frankly not the clients' problem.

If you bought lunch every Thursday at a cafe, would you expect to be charged for the lunch you won't be getting on boxing Day because they're closed? After all, maybe the cafe owner has to pay his staff anyway... bollocks.

If it is in the contract probably not much you can do though. Other than point out that it is actually shit for business to not provide the service your customers paid for.

OP am I right in thinking you are paying 4x your salary in childcare? Surely that's not sustainable long term anyway?

Revengeofkarma - you go to trading standards for advice, you don't challenge the nursery through trading standards. Trading standards are there for service advice therefore the op can telephone them and not be sniggered at for asking for such advice to see where she stands with this situation, and yes if your phone, tv service or other service is not working then you are entitled to a refund for the time that it isn't working.

I think you are BU ... if you send your child on another day you might affect your their ratios... I think it is tough. They still have overheads to pay just because it is the holiday ... if you sent your child full time and paid monthly would you expect to get a day back for christmas and bank holidays ... no (well you could but no doubt it would put their fees up). This is how it is nurseries ... tough luck

How can they charge for a service on X day if they are not actually providing it? Surely that's basic breach of contract.

Like any other business, they should be working out their total costs inc. pay for employees during bank holidays and charging a daily rate that incorporates this to all their users. Otherwise, parents who only use the Nursery on Mondays are receiving fewer sessions than parents who only use the facility on Wednesdays, but they're being charged the same fee.

Also, it's nonsense to try to compare this to your employer paying you for bank holidays. The OP isn't their employer, she's paying for a service.

If you shopped at Tesco's on Mondays and they closed for a bank holiday, (!) you wouldn't expect to be told you can't have any groceries today but we're still going to charge you as normal because we still have to pay our staff.

I agree that it is wrong to charge for a service that is unavailable (I am a CM) but if OP has signed a contract agreeing to the nursery's T&C's then that is that.

Surely either the OP signed a contract stating bank holidays would be charged for or she didn't? It's not a question of them being wrong, it's a question of what the OP has agreed to.

Either costs of paying staff bank holidays will be recouped by charging parents on that day, or with increased fees year-round. Depending on which it is in this case, the OP will either have to pay or not.

I know you don't go to TS to challenge the contract. Most people do. I was merely quoting your words. And they won't snigger at you. Until you leave. Every job has stories, and this would be one. Especially since TS doesn't provide advice to consumers in the first place. You can report things to TS, so they can investigate. You might be confusing them with Citizens Advice. Then again, since you thought you could challenge contracts through these organisations, you could just be talking out of your backside.

And you just try to get a refund for time down due to maintenance on your phone, Internet or what have you. Go ahead. They'll point you to the relevant clause in the contract that says no, you're not entitled.

I really don't know what's worse. Your profound sense of entitlement or your complete inability to read a contract.

Next she will try to fight her landlord over rent on the grounds that since February has 28 days, she shouldn't have to pay extra like those months that have 30 or 31! The horror!

We didn't go with a particular nursery when Ds was little for their bank holiday policy as I worked Mondays (incl BH) so couldn't afford to be paying for something I wasn't getting PLUS paying for an alternative as I still needed to work.

YANBU to think its rubbish and an unfair practice in principle.
YABU to not know that it is common and what you've signed for.

The whole thead is why my blood boils when it comes to childcare. It's stupidly expensive (don't know if that's greed or govt. red tape). The charges aren't reflected in the staff pay and finding wrap around childcare can be a nightmare - like people don't still have to work BH/term-time/xmas.

There are 2 ways to do it. Either you say we need 11.7k per place per year to make a profit , so that is 45pounds a day for 260 days and people pay for bank holidays or we charge 46.50 a day , don't charge for bank hols.

Charging for bank holidays look attractive to a nursery because 1) people don't read the small print and just look at the price 2) this way favours full time children which are better customers than part timers timers (in terms of money into the business, ease of administration, reliability of income stream etc)

There's also the issue that ratios are one part of the equation, and the number of children a nursery is allowed to have overall is another. They may have only 100 attending every day, and keeping to the ratios needed, but they'll only be allowed a capacity of (and I'm making this number up as it depends on a lot of factors) 175. If a child attends 10 sessions a week (full time) that's one towards capacity. If a child attends one session a week, that's also one towards capacity. Which tends to mean that those getting part time care pay a bit more in any event per session as they effectively prevent the nursery earning more. Whether or not that's fair tends to depend on which side of the equation they're on.

revenge, where is the 'profound sense of entitlement' from an Op who works minimum wage and whose DH just lost his job?

Quite likely she isn't paid for days she doesn't work - and she still has to pay the nursery.

Obviously nursery workers should get bank holidays off.

But can't we have some compassion for struggling parents who take a hit on those days?

It's sad when someone's misfortune - that desperate need to count every penny - gives munsnetters an opening for a deep belly laugh.

Working out bills is incredibly complex and time consuming.
It is just easier to work it out based on the same number of days the child attends per month.
If they have to change the bills to take account of Bank Hoildays it adds to the time and expense as every child's bill will have to be adjusted and an invoice produced.
If the nursery is small it may be the manager's job to do this- themanager may be included in the ratios, so this impacts on the time available to spend with the children.
If the nursery is large or part of chain, they may have hundreds of fees to recalculate and invoices to alter.
Also, Bank Holidays are taken into consideration when deciding fees. The nurseries that claim they don't charge for BH wll usually have higher daily rates.
As for swapping days, one extra child may mean an extra staff member- not always easy if staff are on holiday. The may have to use their holiday entitlement by the end of the year,as most places won't let you carry it over to the next year.

Gosh, lots of unnecessary, nasty comments on this thread after my last post!

Ok. Firstly, I've never said I was going to Trading Standards, so wind your necks in! Secondly, I don't believe that the costs do even out over the course of a year, when you only pay for 2 days a week. We pay £45 a day. If your child is in full time (or more days) it's cheaper. We pay the highest rate. Thirdly, I have to work. I have no option. I'd love to spend all week with my baby, but I can't afford to - so I really don't appreciate the comments about me obviously not wanting to spend time with my daughter!

However, having said that, if they were open on Boxing Day, YES I would send her in! Not for a full day, but just long enough to get loads of jobs done around the house that I don't have time to do because I'm either a. at work, or b. enjoying time with my daughter.

It seems as though there are a lot of ppl on this thread who think £45 is cheap and I"m making an issue out of nothing. To put it in context, £45 is our household food bill for the week.

I did read my contract before signing. I noticed the part about them being closed on Bank Hols. It was not clear (at the time I read it) that I would still be charged for a service I was not receiving. So clearly it was deliberately hidden in the small print (which is probably what's annoyed me the most) The nursery is fab. I love it. We're happy there. But it's not the cheapest. We have to provide nappies, wipes etc, not all included like some nurseries do. Incidentally, the nursery owners (it's a small business, think they have 3 in total) do drive around in their swanky cars etc so it's obvious where all the money is going!! BUT we chose the nursery on the basis of how comfortable I felt leaving my small baby with the staff - who are fantastic and for me, yes, it's worth every penny.

No. Nursery is not 4x my salary. It's my whole salary, nearly. The difference (small that it is) is the amount that we need to make ends meet. Catch 22. If we didn't send her at all, we would not be able to make ends meet.

I'm not about to go in on the bounce. I was just wondering if this was common practise and what other people, who use nurseries, thought about it.

It's definitely not worth me ruining a great relationship with the nursery over, but given it's obviously management who make these decisions, not the actual staff, I don't believe it's going to harm my care etc if I raise the question?

Does the nursery have a comments/complaints box or undertake parental questionnaires?
If they do then you will have the opportunity to question their policy regarding BHs
if you can get lots of other parents all to do the same then you may be able to get them to change it.
If you are unhappy with the contract then I think you should ask them about it.

Our nursery charges us (£80 per day) for bank holiday Mondays when they are always shut, but does not charge us for Jewish holidays when they are also shut, or Christmas Day-New Year's Day when it is also shut. Go figure!

OP, if it's not clear in your contract or any accompanying policies, then you have more of a case. You might also want to check policies for snow days etc.

Especially since TS doesn't provide advice to consumers in the first place.

Trading standards have a website to explain the help and advise they can offer to consumers, put your postcode in for your local office. You are able to telephone your local office for further advice if needed.

"It was not clear (at the time I read it) that I would still be charged for a service I was not receiving. So clearly it was deliberately hidden in the small print (which is probably what's annoyed me the most)"

But was it there or not? Doesn't matter how small the font they used was. Either it made clear bank holidays are charged for or it didn't. If it did, then annoying as it is, there's nothing you can do. If the contract in whatever sized print was genuinely ambiguous on this point, you have an argument and I would agree you should make it.

So clearly it was deliberately hidden in the small print (which is probably what's annoyed me the most)

Like TheDoctrineOfWho says, it might not be there at all. Why don't you ask them to clarify where you've agreed to pay for Bank Holidays and if they can't find it, say that you expect not to be charged for these days.

Oh, and my earlier post, several days fewer not several days less!

Or what flowery said.