To wonder how the fuck small independant shops make money ?

[LaurieFairyCake]

Tiny shop near me for rent (600 square feet)
£13,000 per year rent

So you have to clear over a grand a month profit (never mind business rates) to break even.

How?

I wonder this too. Every time I walk in one I think the owner must be running it for fun and is really a trust fund...ee.

That's before business rates as well.

It's insane.

Rates, Rents, Brands/Chains and a plethora of legislation to adhere to that only large companies and the public sector are capable of fulfilling - most small/independent retailers are either struggling/fighting or closing down. Sometimes I really do wonder what we as a Country actually do to make any money as we seem to have some (quite a bit comparatively) but how?, where does it come from?.

What kind of area is it though? I live in an area with lots of small independent shops and they all stay open. We have independent butcher, fishmonger, ironmonger, jewelry and gifts, shoes, childrens-wear, card shop, deli and fruit shop to name but a few....they manage and the rents must be about what you say...

My friend had a toy shop that she inherited. She was able to keep afloat by selling traditional wooden toys alongside the lego, barbies etc. However she couldn't afford to do 3 for 2's that many parents now expect and slowly her business dried up. I love wooden toys and bought some for my kids but demand has disappeared. I had hoped she'd rent the shop out and do business online but she couldnt afford to rent storage. She makes more from renting the shop than she did running a business for herself.

It hasn't got cafe use age (A1?). And not suitable for a butchers/bakers as it's a gift shop.

How can a gifty wifty place make enough to cover 20 k rent and rates? It's just not possible is it.

There was a shop in our local shopping centre(big chain name) that shut down because the rent rose. The shop wanted to stay open but the centre wouldnt negotiate. So now it is in an out of town retail park & the shopping centre is half empty(not exagerating).

If big chains cant afford the rent how on earth are independant shops meant to.

We just had a Monsoon close in our shopping centre because the rent was too high. Why would the landlord want to lose a big name like that is beyond me.

I wonder that too. And I also wonder about the tax write-offs, trust funds, etc..

I also wondered how the people in my former neighbourhood managed to live in large 500k plus houses and not have jobs (but be well below retirement age). Its a mystery, but I wonder if its similar reasons for both?

Smallish retail units in shopping centres near where I live have rents in excess of £100k per annum - this doesn't even include business rates! I have no idea how any shop operates under such circumstances.

You should check out the rent prices at Halton Lea shopping centre. Shops are closing down every month but they still charge ridiculous rents.
Why?

Icame - yes I can see that in some areas ( 2 scenarios provided here), the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker can thrive (or make do), but I sense that this is because of:

Scenario 1

An established, loyal customer base that is willing/able to pay a premium for these services. I also sense that this sort of trade might be carried out because the 'customers' are in a socio-economic position that enables them to 'ward off' the intrusions of the 'branded chains'.

Scenario 2

An established, loyal customer base in an area too 'deprived' or remote for the 'chains' to set up a complete destruction of the local independents. Often length of time in business and 'retirement being the only other option' keeps these outlets open.

Just sayin'

The town I work in is dying a death. Whole streets of shops with shutters down.

We have a 'virtual' street where the buildings are owned by big businessmen from a nearby town who don't maintain them - they have PVC/wood over them & painted to resemble virtual shops. There's no roofs on them so no rates need to be paid,

It's a joke.

There are shops not able to pay rent & rates / though last year council struck a 0% rate increase, landlords still demand silly rent. Wouldn't you think they'd rather have their building occupied & be bringing in some rent rather than lying empty & no rent!!

In the case of the town I'm talking about, the council make decisions about businesses coming to town... But given that up until recently 70% of councillors had business interests in town there have been no big label names allowed in. - with the exception of tesco & even then it's not in the town centre.

It's a town full of small independent traders trying to make a living, but 9/10 you get items cheaper online.

I love to support local businesses, but often I have to ask myself, at who's expense?

Our village is scenario 2. Even the small general stores and grocers are completely independent - no Londis, Bells, Spar or similar here. As a result, they're actually quite reasonable for most items, even if the choice isn't great. If I run out of ketchup or baked beans, I'm not going to pay much more for them, there, than in the nearest supermarket. Sometimes it's been less.

The bus is £4.50 return to the nearest Tesco and £6.70 to the nearest Asda (and no longer runs to the town with the nearest Sainsburys) so people are quite happy to spend £30 at a time in there on several days worth of food and tabs

Bristol manages to have small local independent shops. Not sure how, combination of luck, loyal customers, big enough catchment to support the shops and in the case of Gloucester Rd, lots of opposition to big chains coming in.

bristolindependents.co.uk/about/

Problem is with big chains is that they can afford to run a new branch at a loss till local businesses fold, then jack prices up.

Lots of small shops also sell online, seems increasingly common to have a high street shop plus website, and some also sell via eBay, Amazon etc.

20k a year and that isn't factoring in water, electricity and wages etc! My employer used to run shops. Now we do market stalls. The returns are far better! there are actually returns!
My local small town is dying shops are closing everywhere. One has just opened up, its a corner plot. When I popped in to say hello and we got chatting, it turns out that rather than encouraging them and offering help and incentives to open up in the struggling town, the council were charging them DOUBLE business rates, because they are on a corner and have windows on 2 different roads!!! It's fucking disgraceful!

It is bloody difficult. We have had a shop for 26 years. The area it's in has gone from thriving independent shopping area to one or two great shops and loads of charity shops/cafes and hairdressers.

We do well because of reputation, and also because we can actually beat the chain stores. For jewellery people don't all want the same thing so there is a lot of people who will seek you out if you are talented, well priced and give good service.

We are doing alright, our landlord is quite fair. He still increases but not as much as many others that we have seen. He knows people don't have money to set up businesses and if we left he might be left with an empty unit!

Surely it is better for landlords to have something rather than nothing?! I can't understand how all these empty units can be left to stand and rot. It devalues entire areas.

I think that if you leave a unit empty for more than 12 months you should be forced to rent it out or face a compulsory purchase order so that the local council can rent it out to startups.

I think that if you leave a unit empty for more than 12 months you should be forced to rent it out or face a compulsory purchase order so that the local council can rent it out to startups.

Very very good idea. Why don't councils do compulsory purchase orders of places that are empty and make the town look shabby?

I have been thinking about this a lot for the last few years but I think that you should only be allowed to own a business unit if you are the business owner. If you sell the business on then you sell the unit as well.

If you shut a business/open a business they get bought or sold by the council if there's no valid business there.

That would mean that rates/rents would be monitored better, it would be a fresh income for local governments and it would be a way of bettering communities.

The Uk used to be known as a nation of shopkeepers! There's still a valid place for it and a living to be made but only if the people holding the keys are forced to trade fairly.

No idea, without cheating and being online too. Which is what are fancy designer shops do.

DD did works experience in a small gift shop in a small town and they didn't have many customers at all.

In our town, new shops are charity shops or cafes pretending to be charities (I.e massive wage to self minimal amount to charity) as then they don't pat business rates/tax - thus can pay a higher rent!

Disgraceful and small businesses are supporting these through higher business rates/tax. Not on.