and an old prude to be upset by dd13's pornified take on life?

[tantrumqueensmum]

dd (13) thinks I am being totally unreasonable (so what's new) as I have taken her phone off her for the second time after she sent messages referencing anal sex and lube to a boy she barely knows (esp as one of the messages mentioned that said boy had asked my dd2 (only just turned 11) about lube - eurgghh.

Apparently, this is classed as 'banter' - as was the previous set of messages to a different boy she barely knows about prostitution with reference to oral sex?! (Ironic and 'jokey', according to her.)

I do not think this kind of topic is appropriate for anyone of any age to text to someone they hardly know. There is also swearing too - I don't like to see this in texts either but am less bothered about this and am prepared to let this go.

Should add dd goes to an all girls' school so sees boys as rather more interesting than they actually are. She certainly has no actual sexual experience though reads EVERYTHING not nailed down eg newspapers, books etc, and though internet filters apply, I daresay the odd thing there may also have slipped through. Presumably teens talk about such matters as well, and she also presumably picks up the general porn-inspired culture around us, where women are supposedly expected to look and act like porn stars in all contexts, no matter how inappropriate.

I've tried talking to her but despair of making her understand - have told her that that kind of 'banter' in the workplace would lose you your job, that texting/messaging is not the same as chatting in the flesh, as stuff is recorded potentially forever; but though in the past she's claimed to understand my point, she is now just weeping that she neeeeds her phone back, I'm killing her social life without it, and that this kind of chat is actually not that bad and 'all teenagers do it'.

So, dear MN jury, is she right? Do 'all teens' 'banter' like this? Am I prude? Or , alternatively, is she way out of order/in need of help (what help???) and how do I get her to understand how normal adults (or even teens) interact with each other on phones (or off them)?

[IfNotNowThenWhen]

yanbu, but tbh , when I was 12/13 I used to hear boys talk about all sorts of vile things, often learned from porn,and would i often join in, ask questions to gross myself out. We would banter about blow jobs,and "prossies" and things we really knew nothing about, but would have sounded like we maybe did.
I wasn't doing anything with boys at that age, and wouldn't have dreamed of going further than a peck on the lips.(and those saying their teenagers are so prudish and innocent -yes, in front of their parents, just like I was!)
The diference is that my friends and I said vile things, we didn't write them down, or send them into cyberspace. Kids really really need to have it impressed upon them that what they text/post is forever.
I guess what I am saying is that she may just be being a typical dreadful 13 year old and will grow out of it, but definitly clamp down on the tech stuff until she can show she can handle it sensibly.

[MrsCakesPremonition]

And CEOP are excellent for info you can share together about keeping safe.

[mrsjay]

this is not banter I have had 13 yr olds and i checked their phones and no they didnt talk about Lube and anal sex but they are quite prudish dd2 especialy , although dd2 did say that girls in one of her classes were tallking about Anal sex and how they do it so they dont get pregnant

I would have a talk with your dd about her sexualised language I despair of young teens talking like this

[mrsjay]

I wouldnt give her the phone back for now stay firm

[Pinupgirl]

Don't give her the phone back for a very long time.

[BeeMom]

I have a 15 year old DS - if I found he was engaged in "banter" like this, he wouldn't know what hit him.

I pay for the internet and his mobile, and he knows I have full access to what he views. At any moment, I can (and do) ask him to hand over his mobile, and randomly scroll through his internet history, text messages etc. He also knows that as long as I foot the bill, this is the condition.

He doesn't "run" with a group that would engage in behaviour like this... and chooses his friends carefully.

Perhaps I am lucky that way.

[MamaBear17]

YANBU. Your daughter needs to understand that banter like that gives out the wrong kind of message. You are doing completely the right thing. There are some brilliant YouTube videos by ceop that show the dangers of the internet and sexual text messages. Good luck.

[cory]

My own hunch (two teenagers in the house) is that there is probably a small group of her peers who are doing this sort of thing but that the majority almost certainly aren't and that if this got out she would lose overall status and get a reputation for being a bit sad. Like the girl who brought a bottle of vodka into dd's class a few years ago: most of her peers just thought it was pathetic but some (the more mature) realised she needed help and told a teacher. The one thing that did not happen was any increase in her social standing.

[kali110]

Yanbu at all

[CuntyBunty]

The trouble is BeeMom is our DS's did it and one of their peers decided they didn't like it, it could be sex offenders register for them . I am definitely going to have a chat with DS1 (now 10 ) before I get him a phone and maybe big up the cyberspace Ninja thing, about how he should try to retain a low and uncontroversial profile.

OP, YANBU. I agree about confiscating her phone. Look on the bright side; she probably (hopefully) doesn't know what she is talking about. It's good that you are maintaining an open dialogue with her.

[tinkertaylor1]

YANBU

My dd never had anything like this. Tbh I think its disgusting. Its awful the sexualisation of our young children. The phone would be confiscated and I'd have a serious talk with dd.

The 'banter' was actually degrading talk about young women.

[harriet247]

That actlly made my heart sink.i wouldnt be giving the phone back at all-youve waened her before and ahe has ignored so I would buy a very very cheap model that can just text and phone and no nice extras! And a nice caitlin moran book and grounded for a month :D

[charleyturtle]

At 13 my friends and I almost certainly spoke like this, without really knowing anything about it. Do you perhaps think that because she is at an all girls school she might have a slightly skewed idea of how boys expect a girl to talk to them?

When I was that age I had a predominately male friendship group which I think helped because I knew a little more about what boys were like. If one boy got a dirty txt we all saw it, which would have made me think twice about anything I txt a boy.

Does your DD have anyone slightly older than her that you could get her to talk to? A cousin maybe or a friends older sister? somebody who would be more mature than her, but not "out of touch" and "uncool" like all parents apparently are. They could maybe talk to her about the way she is presenting herself with these txts and the dangers associated with it. Maybe they could talk to her a little about the emotional side of an adult relationship, like to make her see how these conversations may seem like "banter" there is an actual impact. If you see what I mean?

[rumbleinthrjungle]

Argh If that's being a prude, then do be a prude. Be a humungous prude, I'll gladly hold your coat.

[cjel]

Charley - If as you say she knows nothing about it because she is at a girls school , then how does she know what to txt?

[charleyturtle]

I didn't mean she knew nothing bout it because she is in a girls school. I meant that when I was younger we would joke about things like that without really knowing what we were talking about. to us it was seen as a joke not anything that we really understood.

And about the all girls school, I meant that could it be that she is more easily persuaded to speak like this because she has less interaction with boys so is trying to seem impressive to them. But she doesn't really know that they might be showing the txts to their friends and getting different ideas about her from this "banter".

[FudgefaceMcZ]

Ugh. My just about 12 year old has never had conversations like that, in fact rarely talks to boys at all, because apparently they are mainly a bit silly and very few of them work hard at school (!)(her words, not mine). She has older friends (mainly girls) and though they do giggle a bit about sex related things, I don't think any of them would be talking about them with boys, or about anal sex, or anything like that, so no I don't think it's normal. I feel a bit bad for your daughter that she's been exposed to information that is a bit beyond her age group really- I would be worried about her feeling under pressure to be more explicit than she is comfortable with, and it definitely seems dodgy with someone she barely knows (sure, when she's an adult she can shag strangers if she wants, but she's not old enough to be legally doing anything yet, and ffs why would you want to be texting random people about anal sex anyway? Given that clearly other people can and will possibly see the texts.)

[tantrumqueensmum]

charley - yes, I do think you're right - that being in an all girls school means she isn't really very sure what 'normal' conversation between boys and girls is about. Pop music etc give one a v weird view on male-female relations, if you don't have enough life experience to put this in context.

She's been nagging me all evening to go through all the messages on her phone with her tonight (not at all convenient for me as there are loads and I have loads of work and no time to do this) as I said we had to do that before we could talk. Instead, I found she had deleted the messages to the boy I saw yesterday - when I'd specifically said that she could only have access to bbm etc if NO MESSAGES WERE DELETED. I can still remember what she wrote but makes it harder to discuss. She made me cry by telling me I'd spoilt HER week (I've barely slept since finding the messages) and I've said she can't have the phone back except with internet cancelled and free calls to family members included only.

Not a good week - to the poster who said 'at least you're keeping the lines of communication open', unfortunately, I don't think I am, as I have to go into her school tomorrow to meet her head of year, because her school performance/behaviour has fallen off a cliff in the last few months too and she's gone from being one of the top in her class to having a reputation for bad behaviour (still excellent marks, but that's as she's bright enough to get good marks with little effort, not because she's putting the effort in). :(

Feeling v teary - don't know how to get through to her - she has gone from being very sensible to having no commonsense at all in just a few months - as though exposure to boys has turned her brains to mush. :(

I don't remember being this much of an idiot at her age. But then I suppose society didn't bombard teens then with the same sexualised pap everywhere, all the time, as it does now. :(

And no, her peer group isn't like this at all - her friends at school are all Asian and from quite strict families - and none of her (white) friends from primary are like this at all; I know they're all slightly horrified at her behaviour too, and one of her best friends has tried talking to her about it, but with no success.

Help... :(



So no, I don't trust her

[tantrumqueensmum]

And cory - I totally agree about how others will view it as sad, not cool (which I'm sure she thinks it is).

The girl in my class at school who lost her virginity aged 13, we all thought was really sad and desperate to show off - it seemed quite transparent at the time. We weren't impressed at all - we just thought she was weird and desperate.

[intitgrand]

I think some people on here are very deluded and woul;d have the shock of their lives if they could hear their young teens 'banter'.Surely nobody can be naïve enough to think that they won't wipe this kind of most kids who send text off their phone so their parents can't find it.
REally, I went to a naice school, but from the way some people are talking you would think they have never been teens.At 13 girls are hormones on a stick!

[lizzzyyliveson]

I think you should have a real heart to heart with the HOY tomorrow. I bet they are horrified and hope they put some thought into dealing with this situation. You shouldn't have to do this by yourself and the school should be able to help you or put you in touch with those who can.

[cjel]

Oh dear you poor thing, It is so hard being mum of a teenage daughter. You must be very open with the school and tell them all your concerns and you can work together to support her. I suspect she is having pressure put on her to do these things and probably isn't happy herself. If she is saying you have spoiled her week these boys may be saying things to her if she can't still contact them.
Try not to think you have a monster - you don't you still have your lovely dd, she is just going through a tough patch and you will come out the other side. stay strong and take all the outside help you canxx

[harticus]

God my heart sinks when I read things like this.
I am never going let my little innocent DS out into this big ugly world. Ever.
OP you are not being a prude.

[tantrumqueensmum]

But I do despair with popular culture - dd is a bit of a music nerd and started reading NME recently, which I (naively) assumed had articles with pop stars talking about music. Picked up a random copy lying around and the two cover stories were 1. female pop star in her 20s talking about her wild sex life aged 13!! and 2. male rock star talking (bragging?) in detail about the drug cocktail he lived off for years.

So to an impressionable teen with an excellent memory who reads and soaks up this stuff, it does seem 'normal' to her for girls her age to talk casually about sex if not actually do it, and yes, in her eyes, the only reason her parents don't see the world in this way must clearly be because they are hopeless old fogeys.

She totally lacks the discrimination and life experience to see she is being sold a lifestyle 'product', that sex sells, that ordinary people no more live like that or talk like that than they trash hotel rooms on a family holiday.

[MammaTJ]

I spoke upthread about my DD doing similar, I just thought I would tell you a bit more about her. She moved out, in a strop, and in with her Dad, because communication broke down between us so very horribly. A lot went wrong, some of it due to so called friends stirring between us.

She is now 18 and lovely! OK, so she is living with her BF, which I think she is too young to do ignoring the fact that I got married at her age but she is settled and happy and we are so very close.

These teen years are so very hard, I had also been through it with her big sis too, but it does get better. It is more a case of head down and get through it, for both of you, but it WILL improve.

You start to see more bad days creeping in, then it deteriorates beyond belief (where you are right now), then, when you really think you have lost your DD forever, the good days start creeping in too! Then you get more good than bad, then you get to where me and my DD are now.

My DStD is nearly 20, and as I said, my DD is 18. I also have a younger DD who is 8 as well as my DS, 7. Just recover from one lot of teen angst and then prepare for the next! Glutton for punishment. You are doing your best, and she is struggling too. It will get better.