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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

I'm really not being, no. Is this even legal?!

76 replies

Peedoffy · 26/11/2013 23:23

Name change as this is pretty identifying but am a long standing member here (though have never started my own AIBU thread before!)

I'm an NHS physiotherapist and my sickness record up till now has been flawless (No days off since I started this job over a year ago) but was off for almost 3 weeks at the end of last month/ beginning of this month with pneumonia. Really quite unwell, needed hospital admission, iv fluids etc.

Anyway, I've been back at work now for a couple of weeks and nothing has been said but today I was called into my managers office for a 'chat' and there were 2 senior managers there who informed me that they had called me in to ask me about my time off sick as they had looked on the computer and seen I hadn't been for a chest x ray at all (I told them I had when I rang in sick hence the diagnosis). Due to the nature of our work we obviously have access to the x ray images stored in the system. Now, the reason my xray wasn't there was because I had it done at a private hospital and once I explained this all was well and they laughed a bit etc and said they were worried about calling me in.

I just accepted it and went back to work. But since getting home I've realised... WTF??! Surely they can't go around checking up on people like that, what about patient confidentiality? They had no reason to suspect I was lying but surely this can't be a standard thing to do if someone is off sick? Plus, I'm sure by law I don't have to tell them what's actually wrong with me do I, just that I'm sick so what if I'd had a miscarriage/ ectopic or something and made up the pneumonia thing as a fake reason to be off? I'm so annoyed with them I can't sleep!

OP posts:

Sickandsad · 26/11/2013 23:59

I'm not surprised you're annoyed and upset about this. It is completely illegal for your manager to look at your confidential health records. Only clinicians with a ' legitimate relationship' with you i.e. a clinical reason to view your information are allowed to look at your electronic health records.

By doing this they have breached the Data Protection Act, NHS Information Governance rules and almost certainly, the terms of their employment contracts. This is a serious disciplinary offence that needs reporting to HR. Sounds like some IG toolkit training courses are needed at the very least.

Jinsei · 26/11/2013 23:59

I'm pretty sure that GPs aren't allowed to charge for fit notes if you've been off for more than 7 days.

You simply wouldn't get paid in my organisation if you didn't submit the fit note within the specified time frame!

Jinsei · 27/11/2013 00:03

Obviously, though, the appropriate response to your failure to provide a fit note would have been to ask you for one - not to look at your x-ray records.

If you get on well with your managers and generally enjoy your job, it might not be worth kicking up a big stink about this, but at the very least, I think you should query their behaviour. Their conduct represents a total abuse of their access to confidential information.

timidviper · 27/11/2013 00:04

I work for the NHS and we need a sicknote for anything over a week. Immaterial of that though, they should not look at patient records and I'm sure that would be a breach of confidentiality.

shockedmum75 Your sister should report that woman as that is a sackable offence

lunar1 · 27/11/2013 00:05

If you were on a ward one of the nurses can give you a sick note covering the time you were off.

What your manager has done is not only sackable but could also get them struck off if they have a professional registration.

DownstairsMixUp · 27/11/2013 00:06

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

notapizzaeater · 27/11/2013 00:09

Did you sign a disclaimer in your contract about this ?

PacificDogwood · 27/11/2013 00:15

Massive breach of confidentiality.
You'd be well within your rights to make a formal complaint.

Btw formal 'sick lines'/medical certificate aka Med3 can not be charged for; they are only necessary by law after a week of sickness absence.
GPs can charge for private medical certification if somebody requests one before the 7 days are up and does not use a self-certification form.

Nyssalina · 27/11/2013 00:18

That is not on at all!
Re: sick notes, hospitals can't give them out anymore, but once your GP has received your discharge notice they should issue you with a fit note for free. You'd probably not even need an appointment. They can't charge you if you've been ill more than a week I don't think...

Work have cocked up though because a) you should have had a line manager in contact whilst you were off to let you know what they needed from you (ie. sick note), b) they should have done a return to work interview to make sure you we're fit for duty and to collect paperwork, and c) if they had concerns your sickness was not genuine they should have called a formal meeting where you had the option for union representation, and voiced their concerns.

They should NOT have snooped to see if you'd had an xRay. That's illegal, against policy, and generally not on! What if they'd found out something personal unrelated to the issue that affected their perception of you?! It's discriminatory and makes me very angry. Even if you feel like you're not fussed to take it further, you sort of have a responsibility to draw it to HR and the unions attention, because if they've done it once, they'll do it again...

missingmumxox · 27/11/2013 00:21

This is gross misconduct by your managers, in another thread this week I assured a poster that OH would not look into records, and to the point we where in the same system as the rest of the hospital but our manager had make sure we did not have passwords to X -rays, path results etc,
Obviously in physio you need access to X-ray but they are not allowed to do this.
In our hospital they produced a poster which made it clear, a cartoon of people around a desk, discussing that wasn't it Joan's Birthday soon? And another person saying yes I think she is 50? We need to do something nice for her, and the person at the computer types in her name, then the next cartoon is the person on the computer being disciplined under data protection, you are in both this and access to medical record territory.
On the innocent mistakes issue, I was trying to find out about childcare vouchers found a file in the HR directory which said child care vouchers taxable benefits and was presented with a list of people and how much the hospital was paying for their childcare.., I reported it to HR and the data protection manager.
This is not a innocent mistake !
On sick Certs you need to sort that out, 7 days self cert, hospital Certs for in patient time and GP for being at home.
Just so you know and are prepared, the lack of sick Certs in the NHS hospital I worked in would ramp up very quickly to disiplinary.
Your GP is your advocate but if you where private to start with they are within their rights to charge for the sick notes, as GPs are private, either charge to your prescriptions back to the
Insurance company for take it on the chin.

beansbeansgoodfortheheart · 27/11/2013 00:29

Shocking! Please take this further OP.

holidaysarenice · 27/11/2013 00:33

As another nhs physio that's a sackable offence. Is grounds for grievance. And is traceable on the computer records.

Contact the csp asap.

ItsNotATest · 27/11/2013 00:39

There is no way anyone who works in the NHS doesn't know this is a sackable offence! Report it.

friday16 · 27/11/2013 06:46

Only clinicians with a ' legitimate relationship' with you i.e. a clinical reason to view your information are allowed to look at your electronic health records.

This is why my medical records are marked 93C3, refused consent for upload. The NHS is the wild west for patient confidentiality, and for all the fine words most NHS staff don't give a shit. Not in a nasty way, but in a "we know best" or "it's for your own good" or "it's for the common good" or "it's such a pain to follow the rules" way. Caldicott Guardians are toothless, sackings (or any sort of disciplinary action) are almost unheard of and the claims that there are systems in place to ensure a "legitimate relationship" and an "audit trail" are complete bollocks, as witness the OP's experience.

If the systems that the NHS claim are in place were actually in place, the OP's managers wouldn't have been able to do what they did. They could, and did. That's because NHS patient confidentiality is Potemkin village, constructed out of flimsy plywood to deceive the casual observer.

There is no way anyone who works in the NHS doesn't know this is a sackable offence!

It isn't a sackable offence, because no-one is ever sacked. If you want it kept private, don't tell the NHS.

ovenbun · 27/11/2013 07:17

The history on the 'ice' or ' pacs' or whichever system you use records everyone who logs in and their searches. This is how people are charged when looking up records inappropriately. This is indelible, you can get sacked for viewing your own bloods, let alone someone else's stay!
You do need to report this, as you are now aware of a criminal offence....this is illegal not just against work place policy. And they have put you in a really awkward position by telling you about it.
Completely appalling.

ovenbun · 27/11/2013 07:19

Friday16 have to disagree, oeople are frequently sacked when the searches are admitted.

ovenbun · 27/11/2013 07:20

Ahh autocorrect, #people. #auditted

ovenbun · 27/11/2013 07:25

The hospital will also be fined, it's usually 75,000 for a information governance breech.

HectorVector · 27/11/2013 07:25

No this is not legal. You're not even allowed to look up your own X-ray.

I think your managers need to be reported to your information governance department for some urgent mandatory training. Speak to both HR and IG.

Incacola · 27/11/2013 07:30

That's unbelievable!! Your managers will be in some pretty serious trouble if you escalate this but I think that would be deserved. It definitely isn't legal for them to look at your confidential medical records unless it is because they were directly involved in your medical care, which it sounds like they weren't.

Don't give them any excuses with the sick note either. Any other employer would have had to approach you and ask for a drs note. Not providing them with one isn't you giving consent for them to access your medical records!!

(I am also a physio in the NHS and would be absolutely livid if this happened to me)

Incacola · 27/11/2013 07:34

Just to clarify, I'm saying any other employer would have to ask for a drs note meaning they would have no alternative. Whereas your bosses, with 'access' to your records, have chosen to take a different option. Even though that shouldn't really be an option.

Not sure that's any clearer...

50shadesofmeh · 27/11/2013 07:34

Phone your union, that's a disgusting breech of privacy, they need to get consent from you and go through the correct channels to obtain your medical records and results. I have access to the whole of our trusts results and notes but if I misuse them its a sackable offence.

50shadesofmeh · 27/11/2013 07:36

You can only self certificate for 1 week after that you need a line from your GP, I'd get one. That's nonsense they charge for it I'd get a new GP too

wintersdawn · 27/11/2013 07:41

I work in medical records for the nhs and we aren't even allowed to pull our own files to look at. you can not pull family records or anything along those lines. I've actually seen a case of someone being reprimanded for attempting to collect their child's info when in a&e as nurses didn't have time to collect it.
your seniors are certainly not allowed to go fishing through your info to check on you like that.

bragmatic · 27/11/2013 08:09

Why is a discharge notice from a hospital (with the dates you were admitted) not sufficient?

I'd be livid, OP.

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