To think schools have a right to state that kids in uniform can't use local shops

[swanningby]

My sister is a school secretary and said that she and the school principal get a constant stream of emails and phone calls from members of the public and shop owners complaining about the behaviour of children from the school hanging around the local shops at lunchtime and going home time. Complaints include shoplifting, pushing and shoving, using bad language, queue skipping and standing around in big gangs blocking pavements and shop doorways and ignoring requests to move. Obviously it's only some of the kids behaving like this, but it's taking up a ridiculous amount of school time to deal with.
The Principal has now made a rule that children in uniform are not allowed to go into the shops and has got the (very happy) agreement of the shops to go along with this. However, she has had parents on complaining about their children's rights being infringed etc.
AIBU to think that the school are entitled to make a rule like this given they are the ones who get the blame for what children do whilst in school uniform?

Hm. Well, personally, I'd wonder what 'right' the school has to be enforcing uniform. I mean, I get what's happening, and it's a logical outcome, but from an outsiders point of view, first the school insist on particular clothing (which is often not as warm, comfortable and practical as some people would like), and now they're restricting what the students do outside of school hours too. It starts to feel as though the school owns the children, which shouldn't be how school feels.

Shops have the right to refuse anyone they want, unless it's on discrimination grounds AFAIK eg race or sex. So not strictly a school issue imho.

Schools can stop children going out at lunch time, but they cannot stop children going into local shops before or after school. My son's secondary ban the children from going out at lunch time, but they are allowed to go to shops after school.

Ofcourse shops can bar whoever they like provided they are not breaking equality laws.

I agree with the parents its very unfair to punish innocent children for the actions of a minority.

I think it's because the school doesn't want to be perceived as 'owning' the children that they've enforced this rule. They want the kids to go home and get out of uniform so they're no longer identified with the school and revert to being their parents' responsibility.

The school aren't trying to ban the children from the shops though, just saying don't go in uniform.
Strikes me as slightly similar to me not drinking in a pub in nurses uniform. I can go to the pub but not while representing my profession/workplace/school.

YANBU in my opinion. It's annoying for other customers as well. At the school I went to we were not allowed to leave school grounds on lunch. We had tall fencing around the school with gates that were locked at lunch times and CCTV. (I guess this is extreme, but I went to quite a rough school).

Why is it infringing their rights? Do they need to go to the shops at lunch? No, they don't.

I don't think the school has any right to say what the children are allowed to do outside school, in uniform or otherwise - except to say that when you are in uniform, you are representing the school, and any bad behaviour reflects on the image of the school, which reflects on the individual. They should IMO prevent children from leaving school grounds at lunch time though and act on any complaints about specific pupils from shopkeepers.

Shops are also allowed to ban children/teens coming in in large groups though if they want to. I suppose the school could speak to the most local shops and agree with them a blanket ban of all school pupils in their particular uniform. But it seems rather draconian and punishing those who are well behaved or need to get a few groceries for parents on the way home.

I agree its hard on the well behaved students, but all rules tend to work like that. The majority don't need them but the minority will behave badly if the rules aren't there. For instance, where I work there are strict rules about sick leave; not because the majority of staff will be taking sickies every Monday if they think they can get away with it, but because a small minority will and the only way to stop it is to impose a general rule.

The shop owners can ban children in uniform.The school have no jurisdiction to do this.

I think it is fine as long as it is allowed for them to get changed in and out of uniform at school and there is a safe place for them to do so.

There will be young carers at the school. Saying they can't stop at the shops on the way home is likely to cause significant problems.

schools should keep children in school until they are 16. ours does!

school uniform is out dated and ridiculous and neither promotes good behaviour or discipline or better results.

a good senior management team does that.

shops should ban the actual perpetrators who cause the problem not 'all young people' as that's discriminatory.

I don't see the problem with it. If I had children at the school I would rather the school head and secretary could concentrate on running the school without having to waste acres of time dealing with complaints about a minority of rude, badly behaved pupils annoying local shoppers and shop staff.
When I was at school there was a rule that we couldn't eat on the streets in our school uniform. I don't remember any parents bleating about it. It was just a rule and we either obeyed it or came up with ways around it. No big deal.

At the shops in my town they have notices on the window stating only 2 children in uniform allowed in at a time. They also have to put a staff member at the door to ensure this happens.

Our students have to have a pass to get out of school at lunchtime . Parents have to apply for a pass and give a good reason for the student to get one. If the student misbehaves whist out of school the pass is taken away .

They can kept students on the school grounds at breaks and lunchtimes, my old school did this. But I don't think they should be able to ban then from going to shops in uniform outside of school hours. If shops have problems with groups of kids they can ban more than two kids at a time or something but this just punishes everyone for a minority

My son's school has members of staff who actually wander up to the local parade of shops before and after school and sometimes at lunch break to check on those who have lunch passes. This helps to maintain good relationships with the local shopkeepers and show the children that good behavior needs to go beyond the school gates. Children dont need to be excluded from the shops but they need to be taught to behave responsibly.