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AIBU?

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Original poster

to be truthful with friend or not?

50 replies

mumof3sons · 24/11/2013 12:30

My friend is a single mother with 2 sons the same age as my two youngest.

Last Christmas she invited me to stay (boys were at their dads.) I had never been to the house before and I was nearly sick. It smelled of animal waste, the kitchen was disgusting, the bedrooms a mess and the lounge was filled with rubbish.

Anyway she now is in a custody battle with her ex as he says she's an unfit parent. She keeps complaining about this and I want to be straight and say I agree.

Would you?

OP posts:
springytickly · 24/11/2013 19:17

I know a few people with this - you would just never know unless you went into the house. There is no indication of it in their public lives. One woman's husband left because he ended up with severe depression as a result of it.

It's called 'hoarding' but that doesn't really sum it up imo. It's part of the OCD spectrum, apparently.

rabbitlady · 24/11/2013 19:19

if she's very depressed it could show in the state of her house.
it probably isn't that she 'can't see' it, just that she can't acknowledge it as she doesn't know how to cope with it.

offering to help is the kind thing to do, but that might bring an end to your friendship, just as quickly as siding with her ex might.

i was a lot like this and am not perfect today. things are improving, though. what made the difference was having my mind/self-image shattered by a man who said 'i'll leave my wife for you' (he hasn't, that's another story) and realising that if he did, there was no way I could let him into my house....basically, seeing my life from another person's point of view made the difference.

so perhaps you should tell her, even if it means the end of your friendship. it might help her in the long run.

rabbitlady · 24/11/2013 19:20

its not always 'hoarding'. i'm a compulsive thrower-outer! i spend hundreds getting things taken away!

wontletmesignin · 24/11/2013 19:23

I know when i was 17, i had two young kids by this point. Leaving a DV relationship and it was hell. My house took the brunt of it.
Myfriend told me what i already knew, but instead of holding it against me. She helped me greatly.
Not just through helping with th housework, but helping me along the way with support so i wouldnt get myself in that position again.

I havent.

A little bit of support can go a long way!

Original poster
mumof3sons · 24/11/2013 19:25

I don't think it is depression - I appreciate it's not impossible that it isn't, but when I had depression I knew the house was a tip and was embarrassed about it but couldn't work up the energy to deal with it.

She by contrast smilingly flings open the door and doesn't seem to see the look of sheer horror on people's faces! When I was there at Christmas there were Halloween costumes in the hall lying crumpled that no one had moved for 2 months. It's not just that - I'm just trying to explain what it's like.

Someone probably not me needs to tell her there's an issue as she thinks her ex is just being vindictive and he isn't, I wouldn't allow my children to stay in a house like that.

OP posts:
wontletmesignin · 24/11/2013 19:29

Why dont you go for a visit and gently explain to her. If she refuses to do anything about it, then let things play out for her the way they will.

Theres not much that can be done for someone who just doesnt care.

She could be depressed, but tries to pretend she isnt.

I know when my house was untidy ...clean but untidy. I was deeply ashamed. I couldnt let people in. Apart from the one friend who helped me. It was no where near as bad as what you are describing though

Original poster
mumof3sons · 24/11/2013 19:29

wont - her ex provided a cleaner, her parents come to clean every fortnight, people do try to help.

It's gone beyond that point. I have never in my life seen a house like it. Ever. And I work in ss.

We're talking animal shit in kids' bedroom, piles and piles and piles of stuff, a kitchen with bins overflowing onto the floor, garden covered with rotting clothes that blew off the line months ago and became part of the shrubbery, mouldy food, mouldy drinks, dirty nappies left out, dirty wine glasses left out with wine still in it, a carpet you can't get a Hoover onto because of the amount of stuff!

I'm not talking about a few scattered toys and a bit of washing up.

OP posts:
Original poster
mumof3sons · 24/11/2013 19:31

wont, as I have explained, it's 2 hours there and 2 hours back again. I have 3 children, I work full time and I'm on my own.

I don't have the time, or the money, and I don't think descending upon her 'hi, here to clean your home' would go down very well!

Like I say, she isn't 'untidy but ashamed' - she seems blissfully unaware that its a tip.

OP posts:
wontletmesignin · 24/11/2013 19:32

That really is disusting.

If it is beyond that point, then surely ss are the best bet. You work for them, if this was somebody elses case...what would you advise a person in your position to do?

slendermen2222 · 24/11/2013 19:33

Ok You agree with her ex that shes an unfit parent? Have you seen her around the kids? Is there an issue apart from cleaning that you have not, as yet, mentioned? Is there going to be some drip feeding here?

I understand when quanitifying whether one is a fit parent, other factors come into play, not just cleanliness.

I'm sorry mumof3 but if you want her kids taken away from her, then on some level you do not like her. I remember defending a friend steadfastly for ten years. That's what friends do mumof3. You infer that you have been gossiping about her as well? Talking behind her back? Again not a brilliant quality in a "friend".

Do her children constantly mess up the house and wreck the furniture? Does she work? Could she be depressed? I think it's very naive to assume that because someone smiles they are not depressed.

Honestly mumof3 you haven't tried to talk about it politely, you haven't offered to help, you just want to condemn. I say again, you are not her freind.

Oh and you are bitching about her on the internet as well.... Hmm

rabbitlady · 24/11/2013 19:34

oh, and your describing an indication of adult adhd, too.

farrowandbawl · 24/11/2013 19:37

Everything you have described is what you saw nearly a year ago. There is every possiblity that what you saw then, is now irrelevant.

TheGreatWizardQuiQuaeQuod · 24/11/2013 19:38

Social services can and do intervene if a house is so disgustingly filthy that it is considered an unsafe or unhealthy environment for the children.

You wouldn't be being a bad friend to gently tell her this and to offer to help (if not physically then by helping her to access services such as companies that specialise in such kind of cleaning). Of course, this is assuming it's still as you describe.

If social services walked round that house - faeces on the floor, dirty nappies lying around, rotting clothes, mould, food waste, etc they would demand that she acts. If she refused to do so, well, they'd do what they had to do.

You would not be a good friend to her by pretending that she's right, that all is well and that nothing could possibly happen.

Original poster
mumof3sons · 24/11/2013 19:38

slenderman as far as I have seen, in her dealings with the children, she is perfectly fine: not violent, not nasty, or abusive.

BUT, the environment she provides is dirty, unsafe, unhygienic and yes, neglectful.

I like her. I haven't offered to help because (for the third time!) I live 2 hours away. Even if I could afford the petrol and I can't, I work full time and see precious little of my own children. I am sure not wanting to give up a weekend to clean a house that others have tried & failed with makes me a horrible selfish friend but there you have it - I must be, because I do not want to. I want to spend it with my own kids, cleaning my own home, thanks.

People have tried to help but to be honest even if it IS depression, those children are still struggling and still suffering. That's why the ex is stepping in and she is calling me and sending me emails ranting and raving and it's hard as I think he is right. I would do the same if my own children spent 5 nights a week in a house like hers.

But can you say that and not hurt someone's feelings beyond repair? Not sure. That's why I asked on here.

OP posts:
mynewpassion · 24/11/2013 19:41

Maybe the children needs to be with their dad if her house is this terrible. Its not safe or healthy for them. Its not about love but being in a safe environment. Thisis wakwake-up call for her if she lises her children for a bit

Original poster
mumof3sons · 24/11/2013 19:42

Farrow, I have seen pictures on Facebook and listened to complaints - parents cleaned up, house a tip again 7 days later, ex hired a cleaner, cleaner walked out after a row, new DPs mum os a bitch because she called her a 'dirty woman!' - I don't think anything has changed but will happily take your points on board.

OP posts:
MonkeysInTheFog · 24/11/2013 19:43

Sorry but if there's animal shit - actual animal shit - in the rooms then to me, that DOES make her an unfit parent!

BarbarianMum · 24/11/2013 19:48

Whatever her issue, it sounds like the children would be better off with their father until it is sorted. And by sorted, I mean that the root of the problem is addressed - clearly this goes a long way beyond giving a friend a hand to tidy up.

OP - I don't think it would be wrong to gently point out to her that the state of her house is not normal - or, more to the point, good for her children. If you are going to support her, let this take the form of supporting her to seek help rather than clean for her.

TheGreatWizardQuiQuaeQuod · 24/11/2013 19:48

Perhaps you can't say it without hurting her feelings beyond repair.

Maybe the price you have to pay for giving her the wake up call she needs to not lose her children is that she hates you.

She has to understand that even if she thinks it is acceptable to have animal shit dotted round your home, dirty nappies lying around and a house knee deep in filth - social services disagree and they have the power to take away her kids

MistAllChuckingFrighty · 24/11/2013 20:29

Well, if you are unable to visit for some time and she is on the verge of being taken to court for residence of her children then maybe you should be blunt and say "if your house is anything like it was when I visited, then you should do something about it"

what will you lose exactly ?

wontletmesignin · 24/11/2013 20:33

Ive read the original post again.
My response now after the added info...

Yes, i would be straight with her and tell herni agree with her ex

wonderingsoul · 24/11/2013 20:36

i would tell her the truth and have done to a friend.. we are still friends.

tell her the truth, and then help her tidy, help make note/lists.

fuzzpig · 24/11/2013 22:31

It sounds really unhealthy and the animal waste alone means her children shouldn't be there, really. Regardless of how she is with them generally (I'm sure she's a wonderful mother in all other ways) children should not have to literally live in shit :(

Whether it's depression or a type of OCD or the environmental dysmorphia thing mentioned earlier... she needs help. A truly mentally well person wouldn't live like that. I don't mean that in a derogatory way obviously - just sympathetic as I have numerous MH issues myself.

Even if you could help her clean it is very unlikely to actually help long term. Just like addiction, people with these issues (including myself) need to reach their own rock bottom, have their own epiphany, before they are ready to change.

Unfortunately having an SS visit may be necessary for that to occur :(

Thurlow · 24/11/2013 22:38

I would tell her. Nicely, and with an offer to help in some way, but if the house is that dirty then it really isn't safe for the children. It might be easier for her to understand this from a friend and work with SS to get the house clean again rather than losing the kids.

WhereYouLeftIt · 24/11/2013 23:21

"she is calling me and sending me emails ranting and raving"
Combined with your description of the level of filthiness she lives in (OMFG Shock), I think you should be truthful with her. IMO, she will be using your silence (anyone's silence, really) on the matter to justify it to herself. She is raising the subject with you, repeatedly - so tell her what you think.

I agree with TheGreatWizardQuiQuaeQuod - "She has to understand that even if she thinks it is acceptable to have animal shit dotted round your home, dirty nappies lying around and a house knee deep in filth - social services disagree and they have the power to take away her kids "

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