To think that a bog standard community school should not attend a church service in school hours

[ReallyTired]

If a community school has a carol service then I feel it should be after school. DD's school has children whose parents have a wide range of beliefs and I feel that the school should not hoist christianity on athetists, muslim, hindus, buddhist or jedi knights.

A community school should present bible stories as "christians believe" rather than "we believe". I feel its important for children to understand that there lots of different relgions/ philosophies and to respect other people's beliefs. I feel that a school should lead by example in this.

What makes me furious is that new head has scrapped all the fun christmas plays because they take up too much lesson time yet she is taking the children to church. The new head is a toxic woman who has upset a lot of parents, children and teachers. I feel that she should put her beliefs into practice before indocinating others.

I am a practicing christian and I can take my child to church. Frankly I don't want nominal christian hyprocite teaching my daughter religion. I would rather pick the person who gives my daughter religious instruction on a sunday morning.

www.google.co.uk/search?q=christingle&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Zw-RUqeAEqaK7Abo5YCYBA&sqi=2&pjf=1&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1951&bih=886 christingle

Fugacity, we don't celebrate Christmas in my family, we never have done. We are Jewish, and so celebrate Chanukah instead.

I have to say that one of the most stupid conversations I have ever had was when my Muslim friend told me that because she is Muslim and celebrates Christmas, I should be celebrating it too. It's none of her business what religious festivals I do and don't celebrate.

Just, not wishing to flame as that is Not Nice, but at the last census the UK was very clearly a secular country.

I recently converted to become an aborigine and not a boomerang in sight at son's nursery. Racists!

The thing is, tired, organising a Christmas play is a huge job for the staff, whereas they just have to rock up to a carol service. Of cour parents preferred a play where the kids did something individual and cute and film able, but they didn't have to do all the hard grind organising it.

Singing carols does not necessarily imply an act of worship. During school music lessons I sang The East is Red and God Save the Queen . It did not convert me to maoism or royalism.

I'm planning to take mine out to visit the Flying Spaghetti Monster for the whole of December.

A carol service in church doesn't have to be about prayer, I think it's more of a cultural thing in Britain. The vast majority of us celebrate Christmas, which is about religion, whether you observe that bit or not. Carols are just a part of our biggest yearly celebration, and I can't see any problem at all with children being exposed to them during school time.

This isn't about your dd going to a church service, this is about you not liking the HT.

I always liked our Carol service at the church every year. None of my family were/are religious but we didn't object to singing some Carols or playing them in the orchestra once a year.

I'll probably take DD to the local church carol service just to get some festive spirit. It's nice.

Yes we're hypocrites :)

Is it a carol service with prayers and readings not related to the story of Christ's Nativity or is it a carol concert?

The Uk is NOT a Christian country. And even if it was that does not give the hypothetically dominant religion rights to impose itself on others.

A child from a devoutly Hindu family playedva Christian vicar in our school Christmas concert last year. Because its a major school event and the children and the non precious parents accept that. We slso celebrate festivals like Diwali and Eid as a whole school event.

Well as I see it bloob the state provides a free education for children. The head of state is also the head of the Church of England. In my opinion the UK is a Christian country or had that wee fact escaped you.

Dawkins I know - but no child has a faith or a religion. They only believe what they are taught.

when I'm president no-one will attend any sort of religious ceremony until they are 18. And only then if they wish. They will learn 'what people believe' but in the same way they learn about history.

My non church secondary had a Carol service. When I was older I stayed at home. No one seemed to notice or care.

The UK claims to be a Christian country but less than half of people questioned in a social trends survey quoted by the British Secular Society identified themselves as Christian. Because of immigration, other religions are on the rise and an increasing number of British born people are without faith at all. Most Christian things we do are for tradition rather than from any spiritual or philosophical benefit to our lives.

At my daughter's school they have a Winter, not Christmas concert, celebrating all winter religious festivals. The RE is taught well, and I say that as a humanist parent. My daughter knows a lot about Islam and Hinduism, as many of her friends follow these religions, and it helps her understand some aspects if their life at home. I have no issue with her getting to know her friends better through their spiritual understanding, but I loathe indoctrination on a large scale.

A community school, I agree, should approach religion as, "some people believe this" rather than "we believe this". I went to a village CofE school and thought what Anglican doctrine was shoved down my throat to be slightly fantastical.

If an independent approach to RE was introduced, children are given the choice to follow what religious, or other moral path to follow. Religion should not fund schools but offer advice on content suitable for children to digest on a spiritual or moral level. Unfortunately the current education minister, Michael Gove, so beloved of teachers, says he encourages religious organisations to fund schools, as usually more money becomes available. But this leads to schools set up in the Muslim/Jewish/Christian faith, for example, to again tell children, "we believe this" and not give them the opportunity to turn to other faiths or lifestyles they may be interested in.

When I asked the teachers at our school when atheism and humanism was taught at school, I was told in Y5. So the children are taught all about the fantastical (in my view) before encountering science and fact based argument for living the best way we can be. Philosophy is Y6. I find this staggering.

Sorry for all the guff but yes, the OP is spot on.

Well our marriage was blessed by the holy trinity and its spirituality confounded me. Our children were baptised, took first communion and one is confirmed. I would be bereft without my faith. One of my children claims to be an atheist and that is his right having been taught enough to make a decision.

If my children's schools had told me they had a winter concert rather than a christmas concert my dc would not have been sent there.

One size does not fit all but I do think if you send your children to a state provided school when the head of state is head of the Church of England you have to go along with the principal belief system of the country in which you live.

YABU. It's good that all children should get to experience the cultures and history of the country they live in.
YABU to dislike the new HT / dislike things changing, and pretend this is about going to a carol service.

And even if it was that does not give the hypothetically dominant religion rights to impose itself on others.

There are plenty of countries I can think of hat actually do believe they should impose the dominant religion on residents. We should acknowledge and be grateful for the (Christian?) tolerance practiced in the UK.

Hate to be a pedant but it's 'foist' not 'hoist', OP.

'That' not hat, inevitably

I agree with you but unfortunately the state doesn;t.

All state schools are obliged to provide collective worship of a predominantly Christian nature (I might have the exact phrasing wrong). INdividuals can opt out and I beleive fairly recently schools have been allowed to opt out.

But pretty much the state sponsors religion in schools in the UK unlike ironically far more religious countries (like USA, Spain etc) who have a separation of church and state.