To wonder why people who appear to dislike religion enjoy Christian celebrations

[Cupcake1985]

I know that most people enjoy Christmas, Easter etc with no regard for the actual Christian basis and meaning of the celebration, but aibu to think that those people should then not get all offended by the religious aspects and sometimes be downright rude about it?? The nativity play, spreading the word of god through carol singing etc..... Dare I mention operation Christmas child?! If you enjoy Christmas then at least try to accept it is actually about the birth of Christ or at least respect that others will celebrate this fact and may try to share that with those around them with the best intentions.

Basically cheer up, be accepting, be kind.

Knight & Beast

MN's very own (& very long) creationist debate

Enjoy.

One poor Canadian creationist ventured on to MN willing to discuss his beliefs - and, well, the rest is history

I feel that in years to come, religious belief of this nature will be classified as a MH issue and people wll be recognised as vulnerable. I feel very uncomfortable when I meet people this far gone.

It's quite possible. I think it depends on what is causing them to have such ludicrous beliefs. There's probably something in the DSM that covers it.

Did you know that amongst people with psychotic MH issues, there is a much higher proportion of believers than atheists? I wonder if it's something to do with the part of the brain. After all, anti-convulsants can be used to treat be used to treat these illnesses, which act on the same part of the brain as epilepsy. So maybe.

It's one reason why I don't call them ludicrous- I am disturbed by the fact that people who have visions could be described clinically as having a psychosis, it's just that if those visions are culturally acceptable, they often are not. So if they are ill, perhaps I shouldn't laugh.

Someone who is actually having visions and messages most likely is suffering from a severe illness, I believe. I've actually known this to happen to someone who did hear voices occasionally (one they believed was god and the others were demons) and must now take very strong medication to stop this from happening.

But, hopefully, we are not belittling these people. It's very unfortunate for them, and very frightening usually.

It's the one's who are perfectly sane and yet put aside clear evidence and believe dispite all logic. Perfectly intelligent and sane people. That is what is very hard to understand.

Genuine question - why is it OK to slag off Christianity and dismiss it all as a fairy story, accuse them of hijacking others celebrations, and basically call it all a big pile of shite then have the gall to celebrate Christmas just so you can stuff your faces with mince pies
but it isn't acceptable to do that to other religions?
Can you imagine the outrage if a whole thread was devoted to belittling Islamic views (just as an example?)
Why are Christians fair game?

jellyboatsandpirates firstly this was a thread to have a go at people for celebrating christmas when they were not religious.

That has been shown to be ridiculous so it's kind of moved on.

You seem to have it backwards. Did you not read it properly?

Not only mince pies, but also turkey and opening presents is very important.

I don't think it's personal against Christianity, I think they're all nonsense. But, Christianity is the one in our cultre, so we know it much better. We also feel more comfortable talking about it because we will not be accused of racism as we would if we laid into Muslims.

For information, I refer to all 3 Abrahamic religions when I speak of them.

I don't know Sikh and Hinduism much, so I can't comment on them. And Buddhism is more of a spiritual philosophy than anything else, and can actually classified as an atheist religion.

Now as to not disagreeing with Islam if you read a few threads on here you will find that I for one am just as able to dismiss Islam as a nonsensical fairy tale as I am Christianity.

Let me be clear. There is no difference between the following statements.

Jehovah is real
Fairies are real
Allah is real
Talking teapots are real.

jelly My personal answers to your questions.

dismiss it all as a fairy story

I describe all religious mythologies as stories, because they are.

accuse them of hijacking others celebrations

Because they did.

and basically call it all a big pile of shite

I think all organised religion is a pile of shite, designed to keep privileged people in a position of privilege.

then have the gall to celebrate Christmas just so you can stuff your faces with mince pies

I celebrate "Christmas" as a way of breaking up the winter, same as many many other people have done throughout history in climates such as ours. Bit more than an excuse to eat mince pies. Plus there's the whole thing previously covered in this thread where Christians do not have exclusive rights to a midwinter festival.

but it isn't acceptable to do that to other religions?

I dislike and disagree with all organised religion, especially theistic ones.

There's no hypocrisy here.

What does drive me mad however is the "poor little Christian" routine, especially in the UK where the church still have influence over the lives of many people whether they are Christian or not. My heart is not going to bleed for poor victimised Christians until their religion gets it nose out of everyone elses business.

Actually, a half evolved eye is quite useful.

And the absolute shambles that most eyes are shows just how evolved they are. Creationists want to claim the eye is some perfect object that can only have appeared by God's fiat, but mammalian eyes show clear evidence of contingency (the blind spot where the optic nerve goes through). Cephalopod eyes are substantially different, don't have a blind spot, but don't have a cornea either. I think I'm right in saying that they're assumed to have evolved completely independently. A God who was doing the creation stuff might have merged the designs together to get something better than either, and then used it consistently over all his handiwork.

jelly I think you need to read the thread

Did you not read it properly?

Yes, I have read the thread. Which prompted me to ask why it is deemed OK to say things like "It's a fairy story" "load of rubbish" etc.
Which people have said. And you've neatly sidestepped that question, haven't you.
WHY is it OK to slag off Christian's beliefs but not any others?
If I came on and started a thread about Islam being a load of bull, I'd (quite rightly!) be flamed.
So why is Christianity fair game?

Loads of new posts popped up in the time it took me to type last post.

then have the gall to celebrate Christmas just so you can stuff your faces with mince pies

Your own words demonstrate that you missed the whole point of the thread.

And you are welcome to start a thread saying Islam is bull - because it is. Though I don't know why you want to single out Islam and not include all the others. I am atheist to all religions and beliefs.

On this thread we spoke of Christianity because that's what the OP posted about. Take it up with her.

The beliefs of Islam are just as ridiculous as the beliefs of Christianity.

Happy now?

Christianity is discussed far more on these boards because it's the religion the vast majority of us grew up with and er, it is officially the state religion on this country.

You have obviously not read the thread, otherwise you'd realise how ignorant your "gall" comment is.

If you can explain to me what precisely is Christian about mince pies, I am happy to stop eating them. Likewise Christmas pudding, and Christmas cake. Is the bible particularly big on dried fruit or something?

Though I don't know why you want to single out Islam and not include all the others.

As I said, that was just an example. I wasn't singling anyone out.

I do know some people, though, whose religious choices have surprised me. Perhaps especially those who join evangelical churches which preach against gay love and recommend very traditional roles for men and women. I know some highly educated, I would have said personally liberal people who nonetheless go to such churches. So that can be a bit of a mystery.

Could it be possible they're hedging their bets?

I think it worked once when I pointed out that if a definition of sin is absolute selfishness, then worshipping for the purpose of afterlife and apparently survinvg the apoloypse that's always just around the corner is a selfish act and is therefore a sin and will dam them to hell. A paradox to which there was no answer.

Oh to have been a fly.

jellyboatsandpirates are you a believer by any chance?

Perhaps a christian?

If so perhaps you'd like to tell us how you feel about the Hindu gods. After all they are just a real as your one. Or don't you believe in them?

WHY is it OK to slag off Christian's beliefs but not any others?

It's perfectly OK to slag off anyone's beliefs. Well, not five year olds who believe in Father Christmas, because that would be mean. But adults with a book of fairy stories? Perfectly fine. If it weren't, your God might make himself visible and tell us that it was wrong: oddly enough, that doesn't happen.

People were cautious about slagging off Christianity in the 16th and 17th century, because being burnt at the stake is painful. People are cautious around Islam these days because they don't want to get murdered. I'm not sure if religious people want us to agree with them or be frightened of them, but at various times, you've certainly managed to scare those that disagree.

Back to original question. I think chrimbo is a pagan festival and secondly Winter can be dull so why not have fun

FrustratedAndFalling - He took his foot out my door, hung his head and walked off without speaking. I felt a bit torn. Victorious but a bit guilty. But then, he betterwas bettervery rude to me first.