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AIBU?

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Animals vs humans round 2

1002 replies

livingzuid · 02/11/2013 20:00

I was enjoying our previous debate started by Fifi. Not sure if we were done!

AIBU to think if faced with choosing a pet over a human (even if a stranger), you should choose the human?

The idea was brought up in another thread and put in life or death situation. Building on fire contains your pet and a stranger. You could only save one, who would it be?

I had a dog, Ralph, I cried my heart out when he died 3 years ago. The only dog I wasn't scared of! But I can't imagine leaving a person to die instead, no matter how my heart would break.

OP posts:
curlew · 04/11/2013 18:19

I'm afraid I would still expect the blind person to prioritise people over dogs, even a guide dog.

wonderingsoul · 04/11/2013 18:20

i find it quite disterbing that some would pick an animal over a human.. esp a child..

so your babysitting a friends child.... theres a fire.. you save your dog....

best let people know never to let you babysit for them.

2tiredtoScare · 04/11/2013 18:23

Oh then yes he's wrong, im sure they'd be given another guide dog

ToysRLuv · 04/11/2013 18:25

If your child was caught in a fire with a person who could have saved either them or their own dog (guide, or otherwise), would you be understanding and accepting of the person saving their dog over your child? I would be absolutely fucking furious, revolted and devastated to be honest.

PrincessFlirtyPants · 04/11/2013 18:26

Thank you, that's interesting.

2scared there's a two year waiting list for guide dogs so it would be ver unlikely they would be given one quickly.

everlong · 04/11/2013 18:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

2tiredtoScare · 04/11/2013 18:26

They would because they'd be a hero

PrincessFlirtyPants · 04/11/2013 18:28

I don't have a child, unfortunately ToysRLuv so I couldn't possibly answer how I would feel. Sorry.

2tiredtoScare · 04/11/2013 18:30

Not having DC hasn't stopped people on this feeling qualified to say how they'd feel if they were left to burn

PrincessFlirtyPants · 04/11/2013 18:31

everlong it wasn't necessarily to do with the person being blind it was the fact that due to this they are heavily reliant on their guide dog. I wondered if that changed things at all. I can see it doesn't and that makes sense.

ToysRLuv · 04/11/2013 18:33

I used to have a friend who basically said that if she had a child who was allergic to her dogs, she would get rid of the child before the dogs, because they were a newcomer to the family the dogs had been a part of for a long time. She was absolutely militant about animal rights. Then she had her children and changed her mind on that. Grin

PrincessFlirtyPants · 04/11/2013 18:33

Well, I don't feel I am qualified to answer, others may do.

PrincessFlirtyPants · 04/11/2013 18:34

I'm glad she changed her mind ToysRLuv !!

ToysRLuv · 04/11/2013 18:37

Me too, Princess.

Maryz · 04/11/2013 18:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PrincessFlirtyPants · 04/11/2013 18:51

It appears it doesn't make any difference, Maryz

I don't think anyone who does lose a child ever gets over it, I would be very surprised if someone thinks they would get over it.

2tiredtoScare · 04/11/2013 18:53

One poster said they'd 'accept it' but they dont have DC in real life

merrygo · 04/11/2013 18:58

By ROBERT M. SAPOLSKY
Aug. 16, 2013 5:18 p.m. ET
Recently, an almost literal case of lifeboat ethics occurred. On Aug. 4, Graham and Sheryl Anley, while yachting off the coast of South Africa, hit a reef, capsizing their boat. As the boat threatened to sink and they scrambled to get off, Sheryl's safety line snagged on something, trapping her there. Instead of freeing his wife and getting her to shore, Graham grabbed Rosie, their Jack Russell terrier. (One media account reported that Sheryl had insisted that the dog go first). With Rosie safe and sound, Graham returned for Sheryl. All are doing fine.

Ella Cohen

It's a great story, but it doesn't strike me as especially newsworthy. News is supposed to be about something fairly unique, and recent research suggests that, in the right circumstances, lots of people also would have grabbed their Rosie first.

We have strange relationships with our pets, something examined in a wonderful book by the psychologist Hal Herzog, "Some We Love, Some We Hate, Some We Eat: Why It's So Hard to Think Straight About Animals." We lavish our pets with adoration and better health care than billions of people receive. We speak to pets with the same high-pitched voices that we use for babies (though when addressing pets, we typically don't repeat and emphasize key words as we do with babies, in the hope of boosting their language acquisition). As a grotesque example of our feelings about pets, the Nazis had strict laws that guaranteed the humane treatment of the pets of Jews being shipped to death camps.

These are unique ways for one species to interact with another. On occasion, a predatory cat, after killing an adult prey, adopts the prey's offspring for a few days; these cats are usually confused adolescent females, swirling with the start of those strange maternal urges. But there is certainly no other animal that puts costumes on members of another species on Halloween.

A recent paper by Richard Topolski at George Regents University and colleagues, published in the journal Anthrozoös, demonstrates this human involvement with pets to a startling extent. Participants in the study were told a hypothetical scenario in which a bus is hurtling out of control, bearing down on a dog and a human. Which do you save? With responses from more than 500 people, the answer was that it depended: What kind of human and what kind of dog?

Everyone would save a sibling, grandparent or close friend rather than a strange dog. But when people considered their own dog versus people less connected with them—a distant cousin or a hometown stranger—votes in favor of saving the dog came rolling in. And an astonishing 40% of respondents, including 46% of women, voted to save their dog over a foreign tourist. This makes Parisians' treatment of American tourists look good in comparison.

What does a finding like this mean? First, that your odds aren't so good if you find yourself in another country with a bus bearing down on you and a cute dog. But it also points to something deeper: our unprecedented attitude toward animals, which got its start with the birth of humane societies in the 19th century.

We jail people who abuse animals, put ourselves in harm's way in boats between whales and whalers, carry our childhood traumas of what happened to Bambi's mother. We can extend empathy to another organism and feel its pain like no other species. But let's not be too proud of ourselves. As this study and too much of our history show, we're pretty selective about how we extend our humaneness to other human beings.

—Mr. Sapolsky is a professor of biology and neurology at Stanford University and the author of many books. He will write the 'Mind & Matter' column every other week.

ToysRLuv · 04/11/2013 18:58

I understand that some people might feel somehow let down or dissappointed by humans in their lives. So, they have disproportional feelings for their pets, because no human appears to care about them the same, unconditional, way. However that is not a normal situation and doesn't excuse saving an animal over a human, even if it offers on insight as to why the person might do it.

PrincessFlirtyPants · 04/11/2013 18:59

I struggle to believe anyone really thinks that. My two aunts both had stillborn babies and my grandma lost her son when he was 15. Their grief never, ever goes away.

I can't see how anyone could know someone who has lost a child and think they would 'accept it'.

OrmirianResurgam · 04/11/2013 19:00

"we are all human animals, we are all here by dint of being willing to share, and that is no longer simply a social construct but something that has been selected for in our very biology."

That must be an exclusively human trait then. I can see that many animals would favour their own pride/troupe/flock or whatever but that wouldn't extend to all others of that species. Isn't that what humans would naturally do? Favour their own group rather than their species as a whole? MY humans first, OK but surely the all humans first philosophy is a social construct isn't it?

PrincessFlirtyPants · 04/11/2013 19:00

Sorry, my post was to 2scared

ToysRLuv · 04/11/2013 19:05

Also, for a lot of couples who don't have children, their dogs appear to act as substitutes (as with the ex friend I mentioned).

Surprised that so many would save their dog before a strange child, merrygo. Even when given time to think about a theoretical scenario (rather than acting in the heat of the moment and possibly in a state of utter panic), merrygo..

merrygo · 04/11/2013 19:14

Are you saying that the couple acted this way in the heat of the moment/state of panic? Could you elaborate on the point you are making here if so.

2tiredtoScare · 04/11/2013 19:22

I'm presuming I'm 2scared? If so you don't need to fail to believe it just read the thread, it's all right there.

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