Animals vs humans round 2

[livingzuid]

I was enjoying our previous debate started by Fifi. Not sure if we were done!

AIBU to think if faced with choosing a pet over a human (even if a stranger), you should choose the human?

The idea was brought up in another thread and put in life or death situation. Building on fire contains your pet and a stranger. You could only save one, who would it be?

I had a dog, Ralph, I cried my heart out when he died 3 years ago. The only dog I wasn't scared of! But I can't imagine leaving a person to die instead, no matter how my heart would break.

I don't believe that either side will learn anything more from this debate. For the final time, I am not sick or messed up or evil or twisted or mentally unhealthy. Animals are capable of feeling love and trust and gratitude, and I am pretty sure my dog loves me and trusts me and is grateful to me. They are also capable of feeling pain and fear; why is it ok to leave a dog to suffer but not a human? Don't give me any of that 'but they're not human' bullshit because my dog is far more 'human' than some excuses for people on this planet. Case and point, Josef Fritzl.

If one more person calls my relationship with my dog or my mental state 'unhealthy' then I will snap. If anyone spews out any more opinionated or made up 'facts' I will snap. If anyone continues to act like a complete and utter prat then I will snap. Therefore I'm leaving this conversation, everyone have some and stop acting like five year olds fighting over who has the moral right to play with the legos.

Saving a dog that you love and leaving a human to suffer or even die is a screwed up thought process. It is a perversion of love.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Anyone who consciously favours a dog over a human in an emergency is heading there despite the good intent of saving the dog, because the intention to save the dog and leave the human is evil -- because the relationship with the dog when it has gone as far as favouring a dog over a human life is based on selfishness, which is evil.

''Love' for an animal that places it on an equal footing with people is all about what the animal does for you. The animal is a blank slate upon which you can draw your own perfect companion. It can't object to your projection except in ways you can always choose to ignore, and you can ignore its objections for its entire life because its intellect will never develop, its physical size will be limited, and its verbal ability will never match that of a human. You will never be pilloried in your dog's first novel. No therapist will ever hear stories of how you screwed up your dog. No teacher will ever call you in for a conference about your dog's horrible behaviour or lack of effort.'

Well it's really easy to see why people love their dogs so much then isn't it?

I agree with all of this, but it's all explanation as to WHY they love their dogs. I know they love their dogs, that's my whole point. You've explained beautifully why, but it in no way changes the fact that they DO love their dogs!

The effect of their actions is disastrous, and their actions are wrong whether they can understand that or not.

I believe psychopathic murderers do harm with intent.

It's a personality type (I think) rather than a mental illness that might lead to diminished responsibility.

The explanation of why people love their dogs is meant to explain what you mean by 'love' as a thought process. It is self serving, not altruistic.

'The explanation of why people love their dogs is meant to explain what you mean by 'love' as a thought process. It is self serving, not altruistic.'

Totally, but again doesn't change the fact they DO love their dogs. What kind of love it is, is irrelevant. It's love.

The definition of evil is 'profoundly immoral or wicked'.

So the likes of Ted Bundy are not evil?

I don't think anyone is questioning WHY people love their dogs, the argument arises when that love clouds an appropriate course of action. In this case saving a human life.

'So the likes of Ted Bundy are not evil?'

I'm afraid I don't know enough about Ted Bundy to comment, but I certainly use the word evil very sparingly and I do think they need to understand and intend hurt to be 'evil'.

Might it be time for the thread to end now?

Animals are capable of feeling love and trust and gratitude, and I am pretty sure my dog loves me and trusts me and is grateful to me

Are you also aware Urgent that should you take your dog to another family and leave them there, they would have forgotten who you were within days or maybe weeks?

Attributing the depth of emotions that humans feel to a dog IS unhealthy (not to mention incorrect).

'Might it be time for the thread to end now?'

I think it might be!

math I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the whole selfishness is evil/going to hell thing. I am an atheist, so that means nothing to me.

why is it ok to leave a dog to suffer but not a human?

It's never OK to leave a dog to suffer if you can help it.

In this particular hypothetical scenario though, it would be the right thing to do.

I agree, I think it may be time to end the thread. It's getting angry and going off on tangents, and i'm not sure what other viewpoint any of us can add.

Literally no-one has changed their mind . We all just dislike each other a bit more than we did before!

Its always fine until people start to invest in the debate emotionally.
At which point it seems to become impossible to "agree to differ".

I love my dog. She loves me. She has been our dog since last July. She met her previous owners last weekend and didn't remember them. If they had taken her home with them, by next May, she would have forgotten us.

I'm really sorry, dog owners- this is sad, but true.

We can't let dog murdering end the thread!!

Anyone for a conga?

Same thing when I bumped into my dog's breeder a few months after I first brought her home. She didn't know him from Adam. Although he was pleased about that as he said "well she's definitely your dog now!"

Ten years on and she still is my dog but I suspect she'd adapt to someone else if enough time passed without me (and enough cheese was provided)

Conga? How does that work on here?

I'm up for it outraged, but it'll have to be a quick one. Up at 6am.

I think we just exit one at a time, in a line, going da da da da da da da da.....da daaa da da......da daaa da da

conga