Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

Original poster

...to expect ex to arrange access through me?

24 replies

Unwrittennovel10 · 29/10/2013 10:33

Ex is saying that now dd is 14 she can decide where she wants to be and he doesn't need to involve me.
I took annual leave to spend some time with dd at half term and ex rang/text? her Sunday night to ask her over Monday (for his girlfriend's son's birthday meal) and then to spend the week there.
Normal arrangements are alternate weekends and half of the holidays (when it suits him ie he has a wife/girlfriend available for childcare, otherwise dd spends hols with me).
Dd then told me, I said he should arrange through me, ex sent me text. I replied it was too short notice and dd and I had plans, but she could go over Weds. Ex said it was up to dd and 'she wants to go' and unless i had 'valid reason' why she could not go, then he would be collecting her in the morning. Spending time with me did not count.
Awful situation, many tears, dd not wanting to upset anyone or get caught in the middle. Me feeling crap and not knowing what to do for the best. Ex sent me text telling me that I am 'emotional bully'.
I suggested compromise, she goes mon to fri and I see her next weekend when she would have been with him. Feel a bit cheated, sad, manipulated (also fuming and depressed).
What is the situation re 14 year old and choice? Have always tried to put her first, agreed all holidays and his requests to swap wknds etc. Surely he needs to arrange holidays etc with me still? Can only see repeat disaster ahead if I do nothing, yet don't know what to do!

OP posts:

wishingchair · 29/10/2013 10:36

Have no idea of the legal situation but I know when I was 14, I'd have HATED to be put in the middle and made to act as messenger. Unreasonable of him. Very.

Also don't know why it would change at 14. Not any kind of magical age is it???

meditrina · 29/10/2013 10:53

What a mess.

How would DD prefer things to be arranged? Is she any good at telling her F things in ways he might listen to?

teenagetantrums · 29/10/2013 11:14

I think at 14 it is up to her, once my kids had phones they arranged their own visits to my ex, i didn't really feel the need to be involved but we never had a schedule it was just as and when. However if you had plans with her she should have told her dad which days she already had plans for, do you live close by? We had the advantage of being 10 mins walk away so they could come and go when they wanted.

ZillionChocolate · 29/10/2013 11:18

The three of you ought to be working things out so that you book leave at the right time. At 14 I think she should have some control over how she spends her holidays.

WooWooOwl · 29/10/2013 11:23

I think at 14 it should be up to her to decide, I know I at 13/14 I was making my own arrangements with my Dad who lived elsewhere.

I think you need to chat to your dd and let her know that it's up to her and you won't be upset if she stays with her Dad this week (even though you will be). In future, if you take time off work and make plans with dd, then agree them with her and actually book it, rather than assuming that you will have that time simply because you don't have plans and you live together. Teach her that the right thing to do in any circumstances is to stick to plans you have made with someone and that it's never right to cancel on someone if another offer comes along except in exceptional circumstances.

I think you need to help her to manage the situation herself as she gets older.

AllDirections · 29/10/2013 11:32

WooWooOwl is spot on with her advice

xCupidStuntx · 29/10/2013 11:39

Yeah at 14 I made my own arrangements.

LouiseAderyn · 29/10/2013 11:40

I would have told him no and then dd wouldn't be put in the middle because the decision would have been taken out of her hands.

It's not on for him to ride roughshod over your existing plans and I dont think your dd should have to choose between spending time with you or him.

You are the parent with RP and so he does have to go through you whether he likes it or not. Don't let him walk all over you and treat you as if your arrangements dont matter.

Guiltypleasures001 · 29/10/2013 11:44

Hi op

My son arranges with his dad what they get up to he is 15, also he has to tell his dad when he doesn't which was the deal when he went through a time of not being bothered. This meant he had to take responsibility for his own actions instead of me having to give his dad excuses on his behalf.

I'm on good terms with his dad but he is old enough now to make his own decisions now, I believe your daughter maybe as we'll.

maddening · 29/10/2013 11:52

I think a mutually accessible calendar with an agreed amount of notice for all parties - he was an emotional bully in this situation both of you and dd - it's no fucking surprise that his gf's son was having his birthday - with correct notice you wouldn't have wasted annual leave and everyone would have been happy.

UriGHOULer · 29/10/2013 11:55

I arrange with my 12 year old when and where and for how long. It's really improved our relationship now he lives with his dad (child's choice). Giving him the power has really moved him along confidence wise too I think.

His father turns everything into a drama and can play the "emotional bully" so im quite pleased i don't have to arrange things with him anymore.

MammaTJ · 29/10/2013 12:02

My DD was the one deciding at that age.

In fact, she decided and sorted it from about 12. There were a couple of mix ups, when she forgot about preciously made plans, but then ExH only had himself to blame for refusing to talk to me!

WooWooOwl · 29/10/2013 12:02

An agreed amount of notice is great in theory, but it does become harder as children get older and have their own ideas about how they want to spend their time. They begin to want to spend more time with friends, which means there is less time for them to share between parents, and added to that they have to allocate more time to homework and study, which shouldn't only have to come out of the resident parents quality time.

It's good for them to learn how to manage their own time even if they don't have separated parents.

niceguy2 · 29/10/2013 12:14

At 14 DD should start arranging what she wants to do.

However as part of that decision making process she needs to be taught to plan ahead and check that you haven't made plans (or vice versa).

Personally I see it as a good thing that she starts arranging things herself and should be empowered to do so.

However, you both can easily fuck it all up by getting sucked into a game of "my rights" with your ex.

uselessinformation · 29/10/2013 12:55

It's great now my ds it's 15 and arranges things himself. I no longer have to worry that ex is blaming me if he doesn't want to go. We try to stick to every other weekend and half the holidays but there is more flexibility now. I let ex know if I have arranged things for certain dates. I also tell ds it's not fair on his dad if he doesn't go because he's just in a teenage can't be bothered mood.

Modestandatinybitsexy · 29/10/2013 15:18

Why don't you give DD a diary or help her set up an online calendar that she's in charge of maintaining. This way both you and ExH can check up on where she's supposed to be and any upcoming events.

It will also teach her good timekeeping and admin skills that I use in the office now :)

NatashaBee · 29/10/2013 15:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Davsmum · 29/10/2013 15:34

If you had already made your arrangements/plans for that week then you should have stuck with that.
Your ex should have given more notice so he didn't upset what was already planned with your DD.
HE has put your daughter in a position where she is in the middle and he should have respected the plans you had already made.

Tell him in future to give more notice so your daughter can consider what she wants to do and you can plan your annual leave from work.

He should be working with you for what is best for your DD - not causing problems!

ThisWayForCrazy · 29/10/2013 15:54

My son has arranged access with his Dad himself since the age of 14. He chooses which if us he wants to spend time with and when. He is made aware of parties, sometimes they coincide and he chooses which he goes to.

caruthers · 29/10/2013 16:14

My children used get 2 Christmas days because we put our Christmas backwards or forwards to suit what their Mother wanted. That isn't to be kind to heir Mother, it's to make things easier.

Now they are older they come when they want to come and fortunately that's very frequently. If one parent is being unreasonable the children always realise is the long run.

Compromise sometimes means doing something you don't want to do to keep the peace.

Original poster

Unwrittennovel10 · 29/10/2013 16:47

Thank you all for your replies and to maddening, yes quite! The problem here is communication with my ex, this has frequently been difficult. I do try and keep calm, have always explained to dd that the way we do things at home may be different to the way the ex does them. He left a decade ago and having the agreed alternate weekends and half holidays mostly worked and meant that we did not need to even speak very often.

This development of asking her over during 'my time' (for want of a better expression) is new. I would never dream of phoning her up when she is with him to ask her out with me. And if I did, he would hit the roof! I think that is why I did not handle this as calmly as I might have done.
Niceguy2 I really don't want to get into a 'my rights' battle. Nor do I want to get into a 'my offer is better than his' battle.

I realise I have assumed dd is happy with the alt wknd half hols arrangement, but I will talk with her about this and see what she would like. Certainly I do agree with her having the choice and responsibility that goes with it. My main concern is that she is not put in the middle of any argument between me and the ex.

I have a couple of questions for those of you with teenagers making their own arrangements...

-How do you handle any disagreements/rules/homework type issues if the teenager can remove themself at no/short notice to the other parent's house? Where, I must add, there appear to be few, if any, rules and certainly none at all around bedtime/technology.

-How on earth do you ever plan anything in your own life if you don't know if you are going to be needed at home? It looks like a certain amount of planning and notice is going to be involved, but how much is to be reasonably expected?

Also, my mood has improved. Being a parent keeps throwing stuff at you, doesn't it?

OP posts:

teenagetantrums · 29/10/2013 18:17

To answer your questions,

homework, well at 14 that was up to my teenagers if they didn't do it they were punished by school. Rules is difficult, to be honest we both had the same sort of ground rules, so when they were early teens we both agreed on no drinking, drugs, let us know where you are going, be in by a certain time. My ex used to let them play 18 games, i did not, but his house his rules not much i could do.
We have a calendar so the kids could see when i had plans for all of us, from visiting my parents to dentist. Obviously teenagers don't need babysitting so i just planned my life as i do now they older teenagers if i was going out i would put it on the calender. If they were going to at thier dads for dinner i expected to be told that morning so i didn't waste food.

To be honest my ex is pretty much a crap dad, he wants to be their friend 90% of the time , then gets all aggressive with them and lays down the law for the other 10%. He had never paid a penny towards their upkeep and they know that. At the ages of now 17 and 19 they know he is an idiot, they hardly ever see him these days, he even forgot my daughters birthday this month. My 19 year old did run off and live there when he was 17 after we had an argument said he was never coming back, that didn't last long.

I can see it must be annoying for you to suddenly have your ex expect to change visitation, i think as we never had set times i am used to it.

WooWooOwl · 29/10/2013 19:40

In answer to questions

I don't know how I would handle this if I couldn't communicate openly with ex, I imagine it would be very difficult, and my dc would end up with more than their share of detentions for not doing homework. As it is, we try to get homework done on the night it's given. Ex and I will both check their planners, and make sure some time is set aside each weekend for homework.
important things that I have going on are communicated to both the children and the ex, and are written in the calendar. If I have something going on on a weekend where the dc are scheduled to be with their Dad but then they want to do something with friends, then they have to ask their dad if he will be willing to take them or pick them up or whatever, and usually he will accommodate that. Again, I think it's something that would be a lot harder if my ex and I couldn't be flexible and communicate well.

DeckSwabber · 29/10/2013 19:43

unwritten I'm afraid you lose the certainty of child free weekends/holidays, but there are compensations.

My boys make their own arrangements and now that they have their own social lives it can be pretty last minute. Sometimes they just have too much studying to do and decide to skip it. If they miss a visit I encourage them to make up the time but this rarely happens.

My deal is that if we are seeing friends, going to the theatre etc it is agreed in advance and goes in the diary. If ex- wants to organise stuff he needs to confirm it with them and they need to book that into the diary as well. Funnily enough they have pretty much stuck to the every other weekend pattern.

Flip