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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

aibu or is this person taking the piss..

74 replies

tinyturtletim · 25/10/2013 12:23

I sold an item on ebay, I had only used it twice and so decided it was clutter. Sold item, sent item, item delivered person leaves positive feedback saying 'item as described perfect thanks'

Excellent, however today I received a email from ebay stating that a case has been opened, a item not a described case the buyer wrote this note to me..

'I used the item and it worked great, went to use it a second time but I couldn't get it to work give me a refund'

Aibu to tell him no? I sold it working, it was at his own admission working perfectly when he used it. So how do I know he hasn't been rough with it or damaged it by dropping it or something like this and now wants his money back?

Ebay tend to side with the buyer so I am slightly concerned as it is not money I can afford to lose.

OP posts:

GhostsInSnow · 25/10/2013 15:06

ebay and paypal disputes tend to be linked, if he's sent you a message through the ebay system depending what he selected as a topic a case might automatically have opened anyway as it's changed slightly.

I agree it's not fair, and I'm really not trying to have a go at you, I'm sitting on the fence because I can see this from both sides. he might be telling the truth, then again he might not, but your obligations as a seller don't change. You do run into the odd rogue buyer but they are few and far between.
I had one myself a few months ago, similar situation. When they used the item they decided it was faulty. I asked for photos of the fault and coincidentally their digital camera had broken. So many red flags, but at the end of the day the item was a few quid and I knew that they would win a dispute so grudgingly I refunded and blocked them without the return because it wasn't worth the dispute.

eBay are really good at contradicting themselves and are quite famed over on the official eBay boards for their conflicting information and general hash they make of the rules. If he does escalate this then the next step will be that they will tell him to return the item to you. if when you get it back it shows signs of damage then yes, you can fight that with picture evidence etc but as things stand he holds the cards.

Sometimes if you make a nuisance of yourself enough with eBay they will issue 'no fault' refunds whereby they pay as a bit of an incentive to keep you both on board. I believe eBay Dublin are about the best so if you can find a phone number online and call them they might be able to advise you.

judgejudithjudy · 25/10/2013 15:07

get buyer to post item back before giving refund :-) this is why i hate selling on ebay, buyer is always right :-(

GhostsInSnow · 25/10/2013 15:15

Definitely judgejudithjudy! And always worth reiterating.

Thing is tiny if it comes back and shows damage then we can help you and advise you on how to appeal. You can take photos and hopefully if you still have the existing auction pics you can go some way to proving that it wasn't damaged when sent. You'd be surprised how many of these stories turn out with the seller getting back an item in perfect working order as well. It's all a bit odd sometimes.

If it comes back with no obvious damage but doesn't work then you can go to wherever you bought it from and they can either repair/replace or refund so hopefully you wont be out of pocket for any length of time.

AKAK81 · 25/10/2013 15:32

Im not talking about paypal. Only an idiot would accept payment for a car through paypal. Personally I would refuse to accept delivery of the returned item and if the buyer successfully gained a refund through paypal I'd take small claims action against the buyer and let a court decide.

SandyDilbert · 25/10/2013 15:36

if you refuse delivery the buyer will still get their refund

ebay/paypal same difference - ebay do after all own paypal

and nobody would take paypal for a car - no protection whatsoever.

AKAK81 · 25/10/2013 15:45

How would you feel if you the buyer had spent money, used an item once, then it stopped working on 2nd use. The value is irrelevant really. I would want a refund, and am sure you would. Legally the buyer would have no right to any refund whatsoever unless misdescribed. I cannot stand people who for some reason seem to think they are owed something if a 2nd hand, privately purchased item fails.

GhostsInSnow · 25/10/2013 15:53

Akak81, again you demonstrate how little knowledge you have of how the system works because as sandy says you only need attempted delivery to show on the tracking to win a paypal claim. Then you are out item and refund.

And I have no idea why you keep banging on about cars because that is the only category on eBay where Paypal isn't compulsory. Nobody with any sense pays for a car via Paypal.

Like it or not your buyer has rights for 45 days - the length of time they are able to make a claim via Paypal.

judgejudithjudy · 25/10/2013 16:04

no point juice - head banging springs to mind! i sold an item & buyer said it was damaged, returned it & she hadbroken it - ebay/paypal ruled in her favour & they always will regardless. i still sell on ebay but simply refund if any problems as you can only have a certain amount of cases open against you before youre restricted & then banned. buyers will always have the upper hand.& wtf has cars gotta do with this?

pianodoodle · 25/10/2013 16:04

I bought a keyboard and mouse the other month. All fine, left positive feedback etc... Then next day the space bar didn't work.

I had no problem getting a refund. OK it was sold as a new item rather than used but if he has spent a good bit of money on something that has only worked once then I expect they will refund him through PayPal.

AKAK81 · 25/10/2013 16:05

It's also worth taking paypal to the financial ombudsman service which is free of charge for you but will cost paypal regardless.

AKAK81 · 25/10/2013 16:09

I was using a car as an analogy. I have already stated that I'm talking about what is required legally NOT what paypal/ebay state. Perhaps I did not make that clear enough. We all know that paypal will side with the buyer regardless. However my point is that legally you are not required to refund and that if paypal do screw you over you should look at other options such as FOS and the small claims service.

GhostsInSnow · 25/10/2013 16:12

Thats the thing judgejudithjudy, there has been a massive shift in balance to the side of the buyer over the last few years. Paypal will always side with them and as you say to protect your account you have no choice do you?
Now it's shifted even more with charging fees on postage as well, though in fairness I do agree with that move as it will stop unscrupulous sellers profiting on postage.

SandyDilbert · 25/10/2013 16:13

AKA you are going on about legalities while conveniently ignoring the terms of ebay/paypal which you sign up for when you open your account.

You can stamp your feet all you like - but sorry, you are giving duff advice.

Why anyone would take paypal to the ombudsman or a buyer to court for such a small amount is ludicrous isn't it?

Original poster

tinyturtletim · 25/10/2013 16:25

Thank you for the advice.

I have offered the buyer the cost of his postage as a good will gesture. Have also reiterated that he can use the manufacturers guarantee for it, this means if he has caused the damage himself I do not end up stuck with it and if he is being honest he gets it repaired

OP posts:

AKAK81 · 25/10/2013 16:25

But the point is that the threat of FOS or CSSF who regulate paypal in Luxembourg is likely to get them to refund you, especially where the amount is relatively small as it's cheaper for them to get you to go away.

GhostsInSnow · 25/10/2013 16:30

Taking Paypal to court is nigh on impossible because they are in Luxembourg. Paypals UK companies are dormant and the contract you signed up to when you joined Paypal was with the Luxembourg branch.

Tiny, it's a good starting offer but your buyer is under no obligation to accept. Hopefully he does and its all done with.

judgejudithjudy · 25/10/2013 16:38

yes aka, paypal are quivering ;-) & its also now costly togo to the small claims court by the time you have paid the court, allication & listing fees. please aka do your research before dishing out dud advice.

op - let us know what your buyer says.

CiderBomb · 25/10/2013 17:29

I'd be more inclined to give him a refund if he'd not been so rude to you OP. "Give me a refund". No please or thank you, ignorant tosser.

Original poster

tinyturtletim · 25/10/2013 18:04

Well, he accepted my offer of the postage being refunded and said he will go through the manufacturers.

Thats that settled then

OP posts:

Coconutty · 25/10/2013 18:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Strumpetron · 25/10/2013 18:32

I can see both sides but I'd be furious if I bought something and it only worked once.

AKAK81 · 25/10/2013 18:42

People have had sucess with FOS against paypal I believe. With regard to small claims just starting the process against the buyer for a £25 fee could be sufficient to get them to play ball.

Strumperton In that case I would suggest never buying anything 2nd hand from an individual unless via ebay.

phantomnamechanger · 25/10/2013 18:52

good result OP.

judgejudithjudy · 25/10/2013 19:12

yay :-)

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