To make want to be parents take an exam...

[ShakeRattleNRoll]

.. to make sure they are fit to look after and bring up children? It seems like there are so many parents out there who don't even know how to look after themselves let alone children. What does everybody think about this? I'm not exactly sure but I think it is worth discussing and it annoys me that people just have babies willy nilly without much thought/money and trying to bring them up in such a difficult world of today.

Ooh yeah, forced adoptions and then forced sterilisation ...?

Not sure exams are a good idea, but I do think that should be required to turn up at HV say once a quarter if your child isn't yet at school / nursery or registered childminder plus a home visit once a year for children below nursery age as I think so easy to be lost in the system - think of it as a watered down version as that hoops adoptive parents go through. If your child is at nursery / childminder then need to sign a form saying you happy for your child to be weighed / measured and HV to talk to childminders / teachers about whether any concerns. And nursery teachers and childminders to attend courses on how to spot abuse. Different once at school as hopefully children are more communicative by age 4/5 and also teachers would hopefully speak to SS if concerned.

re: having 1 child / financials - I saw something in the paper this evening about someone being upset that they were having 10th child and council not supplying big enough house, and I was a bit . I think that tax credits / family allowance house size etc should be set - get half for 1st child, other half for 2nd child (would be more than you get for 2 children at the moment) BUT nothing extra for subsequent children born after a certain date. Accept that everyone has a "right" to have kids, but why should the stage pay for 10 kids if you can't afford?

How do you know if a parent has been successful?

Once the teen years hit it sometimes goes wrong.... So if they get to 18 and are fit healthy and don't drink/smoke/are not obese..... Then you are 'allowed' to have another??

Ridiculous idea, it's like those people who shout bring back hanging.

I could write a essay on why but I don't think your serious so my initial points would be:

What is the measure of a good parent. Lots of people have drastically different upbringings but equally enjoyed them and have turned into relatively happy or productive members of society so is there a measure. Also lots of people (see stately homes thread) have on paper good parents but have absolutely miserable childhoods. Could a parenting test feasibly examine whether someone is too emotionally repressed to have a child.

Secondly lots of parents, as seen on mn and in my own experience will freely admit to considerable changes in their approach and beliefs about child rearing once they had children so pre-kids wouldn't be a true picture of the parents they will actually be and you can't then remove kids on failing the exam (you just hope SS will be involved if they're failing actual parenting).

Finally, using baby p as an example. That woman wanted children, she could have easily had a termination but had multiple children. She managed to evade SS for years which eventually lead to the death of her son. Don't you think that even the dodgiest contributors to the gene pool could manage to pass such a test but not actually practice what they claim they will.

It's an idea but I think we should start with dog licences.

There's so much more to being a parent than the baby/toddler years you know!!!

choosing to use formula is NOT shit

ShakeRattleNRoll Thu 24-Oct-13 23:31:32
"Maybe the ones who are not allowed a child and have had a child must have to give it away to a capable parent who can bring up a child in a decent enviroment."

And who defines a decent environment? Are you going to go solely on income/property/education or will there be some means of identifying middle class and upper middle class parents who are likely to be emotionally or physically abusive or to enter relationships at a later stage with such people? Or do you suppose that doesn't happen?

I was using the formula thing to show how stupid it is to base ideas about parenting prowess on your own prejudices.

Sorry for offence caused.

foreveronadiet, the large families on benefits do take up a lot of space in the media, but there are actually very few on them in the country (which is why the same ones seem to feature again and again); if we wanted to address a widespread problem this is not it

Lets get to practicalities

When do you take the exam?
What happens if you fail?
How do you ensure that people both mothers and fathers who fail don't procreate?
What if the mother passes and the father fails or vice versa?

How do you picture the exam system being managed?

forgiven

hides anxiety and panic attack reducing formula

foreverondiet thats an excellent post ,thx for sharing :-) I agree entirely ,maybe that was the point I was trying to get across.Stricter mearsures,check etc after they have been born .Bravo well said foreveronadiet ,I feel alot more comfortable with your philosophy.

Cory you talk a lot of sense.

How'd we do on an exam op:
We thought, 'oh, a baby... yeah, that'd be nice', after getting married. I have never had a huge maternal urge for dc, but now they're, I'd crawl through broken glass for them.
Ff.
Still co sleep 2yo.
Started back at work.full time when youngest dc aged 2.
Rent, don't own, house.
Car is 16yo.
Don't own any Lego.
Never went to baby groups.
Don't take dc swimming.
Can't afford holidays (even camping 50 miles away).
Bathe dc every 3 days or so as they hate water (see above: swimming)

But we're white, possibly lower mc (not sure), don't smoke - so we'd pass. Right?

Bonkers thread!

YABU

Obviously Edexcel would be involved - which would be hugely reassuring.
Perhaps it could be divided into a Theory (multiple choice) paper and a Practical paper carried out on an actual real live baby (?? must do some research on where we could borrow these from?? possibly the ones that have been removed from failing parents??). Resulting in a license which will need renewing every couple of years.

Grandparents who provide childcare will also be expected to hold a valid license.

Also surely you would have different ideas about parenting at 17 to say 37?

So what you have to go to your GP and request to be removed from contraception and wave your passed test about in order for it to happen. But say you are 37 and have failed the test at 17, do you get a retake?

It would be like 1984, all of us on forced contraception until we pass the test, show it to our GP and get approval to ttc. You would get all sorts of horrors by people trying to get round the rules.

A test wouldn't stop people like Baby P's mum (since you referenced her). A parent could answer every question correctly, get their pass grade and then still beat their child to death.

excellent post Tigoldbitties thanks for enlightening and educating me and I agree with your post entirely ,thx for sharing:-)

Come on op.... Answer some questions!

You are just agreeing with anyone who loosely sees any sense in your posts ( tho maybe they are just humouring you)

Maybe the ones who are not allowed a child and have had a child must have to give it away to a capable parent who can bring up a child in a decent enviroment

Ever read a book called "The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Attwood, or seen the film? Do you know what a "dystopian future" signifies?

cory obviously my idea is a bad idea what u highlight.You post is spot on and I agree with your post,well said :-)

I have actually been suspected of child abuse. I am as white and middle class as they come, educated to PhD level, highly verbal, used to moving among professionals.

The suspicions against us were solely based on the fact that dd had pains that the doctor couldn't diagnose (turned out to be a perfectly clear case of a perfectly well known genetic condition).

But what is rather more worrying than the fact that dd was detained in hospital on these unfounded suspicions is the fact that after a few days he let us go home without any further investigations after I had had a few talks with him and basically established my persona as someone from the same background to himself, a professional person and somebody he might have met socially. And that sort of person is, of course, totally incapable of child abuse?

I don't think the exam is a good idea after reading this thread .I'm glad I have brought the topic to the table though which will help me understand the subject much better now. Thank you for all your posts :-)

China has been splashed all over the news recently for dragging women out of their homes and forcing them to have late term abortions because of their one child rule. Orphanages full of unwanted baby girls (those that get to live). Lets set our sights a bit higher than 'well China has a one child policy, why don't we do similar?'

Cory - yes that may well be the case, I don't know if its actually a big problem or not.

But I stand by my other comments. Nothing happens if you don't ever turn up at HV and child can be at home until age 5 - think needs to be more state involvement BUT def not exams before you have kids, as agree it wouldn't help.

Also think more HV involvement could help other non abuse issues, eg children with say delayed speech who don't realise that its not normal that their 3 year old can't speak at all and wouldn't think to go to GP to discuss etc.