to think this is not a fair way to choose whcih DCs go on school trips?

[tripadvisor]

DCs school (bog-standard state secondary) has a great system for trips, where they all happen in the same week, alongside special in-school activities.
This means you get one trip or treat per year, and have a good choice of very expensive right down to free activities.
Yesterday, they had an assembly all about this year's options. They were told to go home and think about it, pick up the details today for the trip or activity they wanted to do, and then it was "first come first served" for places on the trips.
So this morning before most of the children had even collected their forms parents were signing up and paying at the office to get their DCs onto trips. One trip was "sold out" by lunchtime.

[name changed to Protect ID btw]

[and yes, I admit I was one of the ones signing up at 8.30]

But I still think it is unfair, and should be chosen by lot.

That seems normal to me, if they drew lots they'd be accused of picking favourites for the best trips.

Oh just realised you said parents were in signing them up and paying, no thats not fair on the children whose parents couldn't come in to do that or don't have enough money today, my school used to let us put our names down to reserve a place then we had a few days to get a permission form signed before the place was offered to someone else.

I felt that the "First come first served" (FCFS) method was unfair because it disadvantages you if
-you need to think for a few days about the money
-you have to consult with non-resident or working away parents
-you have to get other DCs to different schools
-you have caring responsibilities
-have children with SNs who can't remember the procedure
-are generally disorganised.

• the DCs need to think about whether they want to go away for the first time.

In other words, probably the DCs who most need the trips are least likely to get their first choice.

And another thing [gets onto a roll] the original letter said nothing about any assistance for genuine financial hardship which may be aailable, but by the time you enquired about that the places would be gone.

I agree op the school I work in moved away from the fcfs system a few years ago because it was unfair.

Agreed. YANBU. FCFC is a rubbish way of choosing. Not difficult at all to have a simple ballot of names. This is the school choosing the system that suits them best rather than the system that is the most sensible.

DS's school does this for after school clubs. Therefore I am a rubbish mummy as I work full time and am not there at the end of the day to put in a form for football club. All the spaces have always gone by the next morning. I could be there in time to pick up after the lug, just not straight after school finishes.

I can see what you mean. However, drawing lots is not without problems.
I was trying to encourage my slightly nervous son, to go on a trip to France. However, as lots were to be drawn, there was a chance he would have had no friends on the trip. He chose not to apply.

I can't imagine the office staff were very pleased to have to deal with a queue of frantic parents.

We do names out of a hat for oversubscribed trips. If you then find no friends going, you can drop out and someone else will get your place.

Pulling names out of a hat isn't a great system either, I think children should be able to plan who they want to go on a trip with from the start, and many of the problems associated with FCFS would still apply if the time between being informed about the trip and names being drawn was short.

Personally I'd prefer FCFS because I'd have some control over that, and I don't agree that the children who most need the trips are the most likely to be disadvantaged.

I don't see why you think they should have to mention financial assistance if they are offering free activities though, especially if the school already ensures that every child will get to be involved in something extra curricular.

My DS’s school run a lottery system for oversubscribed trips, and they also take into account whether kids were given a place on one of the big trips in previous years so kids who haven’t been on any of the big trips get priority. I don’t know all the details but that seems pretty fair to me. (And no, my DS hasn’t been given a place on every trip he’s applied for!) It certainly seems fairer than first come first served.

What I think would be fairer is get all the children to write their top 3 trips then distribute them accordingly. Like senior school options. That way most will get a trip they wanted. Maybe putting the disruptive kids to the back of the lists after been given a chance to improve?.

Theres probably bad points to that to that I've not thought through though.

I don't think that's right at all. THere should be no bookings until all the children have managed to get details, think about it, and talk it through with family. I think it is shocking really that bookings are taken before others have even had time to get their forms.

They should have a system where they have until Friday to pick up info, think, discuss etc, and put in application. Then following week, you find out where you are going.

Yes people will moan ohh put lucky dip isn't fair, teachers pick their favourites, but this is why, each student picks out a name for a particular place.

Apparently some parents paid deposits on-line last night before even getting the forms! They have now taken some of the very popular trips off the list for on-line payments, presumably because they don't want more deposits than there are places.

I agree drawing lots can be difficult, especially with the DCs like Hedwig's (and mine) who really want to be with their friends.

I stand by my point about the finance; the school might use Pupil Premium money to subsidise some of the activities, and there would have been no chance to find out about this. (Don't know the details at current school, but at Primary it was used for some residentials).

The frustrating thing is that there are enough fun things for everyone to do, at a range of prices, but one or two are more popular, so almost everyone waxes hysterical and fees hard-done-by.

feels hard-done-by

FCFS is a horrible system and should be banned.

We do activity options on a Wednesday afternoon which changes each term and the students can choose what to participate in. Roller skating, ice skating, the water park and horse riding when offered are definitely the most popular. Students list their top five choices and then it's sat down and worked out who goes where. Well to be fair, our poor PE coordinator has to do it. She keeps a spreadsheet so that everyone gets an equal turn at the "good" activities (eg if you went horse riding last term, you'll probably be playing one of the school based sports the next term).

For our bigger trips (overseas or ski trip) we ask everyone to sign up for what they want, then we put a notice out saying we need x number of volunteers to supervise for the trip to go ahead. We've always managed to get enough to cover everyone who wants to go.

It's difficult because I can't think of a system that would be fairer. It's always going to be unfair to run expensive trips because poorer children won't be able to go on those. Picking names out of a hat is just another name for "we'll pick who we want to go on the trip" so that's unfair.

At DDs school they send a letter out a week in advance and say that at such and such a time (usually around 7pm)a trip will go live on parent pay and the first lot to pay the deposit get the places.

This way parents can't slip into the office early or letters that arrive in the register earlier than others don't get in first.

You have to be ready though with your finger on the button and pay really quick!Next year's ski trip sold out in 4 mins!

Seems like the fairest way unless your internet goes down!

Drawing lots can be the only fair way otherwise it's only pushy parents (like the self confessed OP ) whose kids get the good trips. The kids that maybe need it the most cos their parents don't give a shit get the crap ones.

Do you really think schools "draw lots"? It's what they say when they want you to think it's fair, but really they cherry pick.

I've seen it done with no cherry picking.

Although I can imagine that a complete pain in the arse might find their name accidentally dropped on the floor if it's a residential trip where the teachers in charge are voluntarily giving up their holiday to take the kids away.