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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be a bit pissed off with this attitude..

44 replies

HulaHooperStormTrooper · 16/10/2013 11:39

Watching a debate on channel5 about career colleges and the attitude toward vocational education and the children who will attend them is seriously rubbing me up the wrong way.

Essentially the attitude seems to be that only poor, stupid and unambitious children coming from less able homes will end up in these career colleges learning trades where they will become (their words) the drones of society..

When did it become such a bad thing to have a trade? Why is the choice to arm yourself with a skill instead of a university education (which at the moment doesn't seem to make having a career any more likely) seen as a negative?

I have a 12 yr old who has never been academically minded but rather enjoys working in a practical way (he loves to cook more than anything) and I think he would thrive in this kind of place whereas my daughter would work far better in an academic environment. This doesn't mean I have tutored him any less than her, it also (in my mind) shouldn't make his choices and his career any less valid than hers.

AIBU?

OP posts:
pianodoodle · 16/10/2013 11:42

When did it become such a bad thing to have a trade?

I have no idea all I do know is that all of my friends who have a trade are definitely on better incomes than me or DH so if it turns out my children aren't academic I won't fret too much Grin

WorraLiberty · 16/10/2013 11:43

YANBU

Anyone who's ever had to fork out for a plumber/electrician/boiler technician, should realise how much we need these people in society.

Dobbiesmum · 16/10/2013 11:44

No YANBU at all. There's this overall message given to children that anything other than a university education is a waste, and I think it's wrong. I studied a vocation and it has stood me in good stead for many years. I know uni educated people who have done either everything or nothing at all with their degree, equally people who have studied vocational work and done the same.

KirjavaTheCorpse · 16/10/2013 11:48

Yanbu.

The people who'll tend to look down upon those who choose a vocational approach to education, imo, will be those who consider education a means to earning lots of money, and if that's not what your goal is, then what's the point?

Many of my friends are doing degrees they have zero interest in. They chose them after deciding which career would earn them the biggest yearly salary. That's sad.

swallowedAfly · 16/10/2013 11:51

i think it's just part of the propaganda machine to make you send your poor children off to sign themselves into massive debt and slavery at the age of 18 (re: hang onto the babyboomers dream that if you get them to university they're saved).

ignore. have the guts to do it differently. i think our children will thank us for it in the end.

Renniehorta · 16/10/2013 11:52

I think that the discussion is more to do with the age that that decision is made. In practice it would be at 13, which is very young to narrow down your education.

However many students unilaterally decide by the end of Y9 on what they believe is their future career path. They then waste the next 2 years and disrupt the education of other more motivated students. So engaging them in vocational education from 14 would be a benefit all round.

Famzilla · 16/10/2013 11:53

YANBU. Did they really say tradespeople are the drones of society? Who the hell built their house then?

DP and I both have a 'trade' (although mine is a university acquired one so maybe I fit in both categories?). I remember once a man in a suit scowled at us when we got on a train (DP in work clothes) and moved seats. I heard him muttering to another person "why do they have to travel in their work clothes? I feel my suit getting dirty just being near them". Honestly!

YouTheCat · 16/10/2013 11:57

My dd (18) didn't want to go to uni because of the debt and the fact that there were no courses that she liked the sound of, plus she understands that a degree does not equal a job at the end.

So she's gone to college to study IT at Btec level 3. It's a vocational type course which has prospective employers looking at their work. I'm hoping she'll get a job out of it as she's exceptionally good at it.

Much better than wasting 3 years doing a course she isn't interested in.

50shadesofmeh · 16/10/2013 11:58

YANBU I've been saying this a lot recently , I think the key to improving employment rates is to put the emphasis on learning useful trades. They seem to make very good money too.

MurderOfBanshees · 16/10/2013 11:59

YANBU

I know growing up I was the academic one, and DBro was the practical one. So I got all sorts of qualifications in academic subjects, went to Uni etc. DBro got a trade.

The recession hit and one of us got made redundant 3 times in a row, and the other has had job security throughout.

With hindsight I wish I'd done the same as DBro.

Pendeen · 16/10/2013 11:59

YANBU

I have yet to visit a building site where there is no wit, intelligence, skill and education.

Perhaps most people working on site may not posess university degrees but many of them have had long and thorough training involving a great deal of practical experience, and tests.

Dobbiesmum · 16/10/2013 12:00

I find it really sad that this attitude still goes on. I left school 20 mumble years ago and got told that doing anything other than A levels and trying for uni would be a waste. I lasted 3 weeks at college before I quit and started my vocational course.
Less academically able students could waste years of their lives trying to follow the system rather than doing something that suits them. The drop out rate for the first year of degree courses are quite high I believe, surely thats a big neon sign that not everyone is suited to one type of education?
When my DC's get to the point that they know what they want to do I will fully support them. DS has already decided that he wants to go into a job rather than carry on in education anyway, he just has to start narrowing his choices down now.

MurderOfBanshees · 16/10/2013 12:00

Should add, one of us has a student debt hanging around our neck, the other has earnt pretty decent wages from the get go.

Being the academic is definitely not the easy path to success/money/comfort.

PoppyWearer · 16/10/2013 12:03

YANBU. Agree completely with 50shades. Following the academic route has done DH and I ok, but I've seen plenty of friends and family railroaded into that when doing something else would have been better for them.

I certainly don't expect our DCs to go to university, especially if they show an aptitude or interest elsewhere.

ShadeofViolet · 16/10/2013 12:05

YANBU.

Such a snobby attitude. The problem is that there is a perception that the people that make most money are bankers or lawyers etc, when in fact many people with trade earn a very decent living.

harticus · 16/10/2013 12:09

I agree with you OP.

The girl who cut my hair last week took a GCSE in hairdressing at her secondary school when she was 15 - she has continued down that path and never been unemployed. At the age of 20 she is a senior stylist and about to open her own salon.
Meanwhile all of my cousins' kids are left festering on the pile of graduate unemployed/unemployables. Up to their arses in debt and sinking into depression.

cory · 16/10/2013 12:09

Like Rennie, I think the problem is more to do with the age you would have to make the choice.

How many 13yo's really know whether they are university material or not- or conversely whether they have the practical ability to make a go of a manual trade?

Ds would probably have chosen vocational college because he thought he was rotten at school subjects. Now that he is older he realises that his real weakness is on the practical side. I can imagine him being a disruptive influence on a manual course.

Otoh leaving it until Sixth Form doesn't leave much time for a proper vocational course, either.

Where I grew up, the first opportunity to choose vocational college was at 14/15. That still left time for a decent vocational programme, but ensured students were a little more mature about the choices. Much earlier and in reality it will be the parents choosing for them.

YouTheCat · 16/10/2013 12:12

Tbh, my dd was pretty certain at 14 that she didn't want to go to uni. If this kind of vocational training had been available to her then, she would have done it.

sonlypuppyfat · 16/10/2013 12:13

My DS is not very academic but is doing brilliantly at construction at school. People will always need walls building and toilets fixing. I always remember my Old Dad saying if a man worked in an office it was because he couldn't get a propers mans job, how times have changed.

TheAngryCheeseCracker · 16/10/2013 12:13

I soooooo agree!

I think Labour is partly to blame, they seemed to want everyone to go to Uni. In the UK it is somewhere near 40%, what is the point?

I also blame poly's, good solid poly's, being turned into second rate uni's. Again, what is the point?

Agree with the poster who said it is a hangover from the babyboomer dream that "getting the kids into uni= kids sorted for life".

The tide is turning though.

Owllady · 16/10/2013 12:15

yanbu
it's just rude and snobby to look down on anyone anyway, let alone someone who has learned a skill and trade and is in employment

Weeantwee · 16/10/2013 12:18

A lot of guys I went to school with went on to college to learn a trade, plumbing, electrician etc. They are better paid than I am, on the property ladder and got to start a family younger. They are not the drones of society at all. We wouldn't get very far without them!

I chose university (or shall I say art college, which really does get me some stick, but that's another story) and I don't regret my decision as I would never have met DH otherwise, but I do wonder what I would be earning right now if I'd picked a trade.

MistressDeeCee · 16/10/2013 12:22

YANBU. DD1 (19) has just gone off to Uni. She's very academic. DD2 (17) is more practical/creative and is at college. She doesn't want to go to Uni & I don't mind that - but I'm SICK of people asking 'so which Uni is she choosing/ it'll be nice if she goes where big sis is'. When they hear she's not going, its raised eyebrows with implication that DD1 is the clever one. Its ridiculous.

If I had my time again I'd be a plumber like my DB, earn a shitload of money and never be out of work

1944girl · 16/10/2013 12:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

swallowedAfly · 16/10/2013 12:40

seriously those of us who have the guts to discourage our children from doing non vocational degrees and signing them up for tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt will be putting them at such a huge advantage for the future.

they will be buying property at a time when the graduates are still scrabbling about trying to get enough money to pay the rent and weighing up whether it's worth them taking the slightly higher paid job than their current costa coffee gig given it will take them above the threshold where they'll have to start paying back loans - not to mention the inevitable overdrafts that go along side the loans.

it will take guts - especially if we went down the academic route ourselves and are surrounded by those still valuing the status of academia but it will be worth it i believe.