To think that nobody changes their mind unless it suits them to do so?

[Thistledew]

About something significant and important, I mean. Not just what you decided to wear this morning but about a real political, social or religious issue.

I was having a conversation with a friend and her view was that almost everyone will at some time have a moment of revelation about something that will dramatically change their mind about something important, and that they will swing from one view to the opposing side, even if it causes real disruption to their lives.

I thought that this was relatively rare - that there are many things that we don't necessarily hold strong views about but if challenged would say that we think is probably ok, but it is only when we have a reason to think deeply about the subject that we will come to hold a strong view. For me, an example of this is pornography - I used to think it was pretty harmless, but wouldn't strongly defend it in a debate, but since learning about its effects in more detail, I am strongly against. Likewise, my political views have shifted slightly as they have become more refined as a result of me thinking about things more deeply, but I could not envisage them doing a sweeping turn.

I also think that most of the beliefs we hold, we hold them because it suits us to do so. We don't tend to hold beliefs that make our lives inconvenient or uncomfortable. Therefore, anyone who does dramatically change their mind about something will do so because their circumstances have changed so the contrary argument suits them better, not because they have been convinced by someone else. We will all stand our ground and argue on views that suit us, and only switch sides if we see a benefit to ourselves.

I have changed my mind on things when someone has presented an argument so compelling, so intelligent, so well thought out and with so much relevant evidence that to stick to my original view would only have been possible if I was really stubborn and / or very stupid

For example, I have radically changed my views on feminism thanks to the intelligent and articulate women on mn who have given me a totally new perspective on it. My mind was changed by the argument and not because it was of particular personal benefit to me.

I'm not sure op- sometimes education and seeing someone affected can change your mind. As a teen I was hideously against abortion especially after debating it at school (pretty sure the.prolife teacher pushed her own agenda and helped that) when I hit 17 my friend had an abortion- I went with her and got educated before and after to support her and am not vehemently pro-choice.

I had a friend who went from making homophobic comments to getting involved in LGBT rights when I challenged her on her ignorant comments and asked her if she thought I was unnatural.

Another friend has educated her cousin and cousins friends about being abelist: using certain words and pushing more stigma.

I think there's certainly a bit of 'what suits Jr's google ' the only moral abortion is.my abortion which shows heavy prolife women choosing to abort and justifying it.But also education can sway oor seeing truths firsthand.

So I think both you and your friend are right.

What suits me* not jnr Google: bloody phone

But Mia and Revels - would you not say that in those instances you just weren't very informed about the subject to begin with? Do you think you could change your minds back again if you were presented with a strong argument the other way?

Yes. I would never ever say that there is no way any argument could ever change my mind.

I can say I cannot imagine that such an argument could exist but if there was one - if there was something that had facts and figures and was so utterly compelling and logical, only a fool would say no, I refuse to change my mind in the fact of evidence that my view is not the most sensible or logical.

(take a look at my profile pictures, scroll down to the one about Discussions. That's what I live by )

and please excuse the terry wogan ones. I forget why I did that some thread or other

I don't think beliefs - political, social, religious - are a choice, at least not a conscious one. For example, I haven't made a choice not to believe that a god exists, I simply have no evidence that s/he does. Until such evidence is presented, I cannot choose to believe differently (whether I choose to behave as if I believe differently is another matter).

Therefore, I can't imagine holding a belief because it "suits me to do so". I think you risk dismissing earnestly-held beliefs (or, in the case of atheism, earnest lack of belief) as mere convenience. It would benefit me greatly to believe in god - afterlife, comfort upon the death of others, not ever feeling alone, community - but that perceived benefit cannot be borne out of nothing, I cannot force it into existence.

I also hold sets of beliefs that benefit me not a jot. My thoughts on pornography/stripping/etc have no consequence on my life. In these cases, education is, of course, key.

As an adult who tends to navel gaze and enjoys thinking about what I believe and why I believe it (even about issues irrelevant to myself), I find it difficult to imagine making sweeping changes to my general outlook on various issues.

I cant speak for my friend though I do think she was informed but just didn't understand until she actually knee someone who was affected by her words and belief. So your friend was right.

For friends cousin I think it was part lack of education but largely 'it doesn't affect me' until it did. So you are right there.

On another note- dps friend was always massively homophobic until she came out last year.
For me it was lack of education- damn no Google- and teacher pushing us towards prolife. One I was educatediI made up my own mind and while I understand both sides fully I am firmly pro-choice.

I agree with both of you- depends on the situation, stance and people involved.

Knowledge evolves and what was 'fully informed' 10 years ago may no longer actually be 'fully informed' - it depends on the subject.

I reserve the right to change my stance on pretty much any issue, if there is a compelling enough new argument brought to my attention. Some of my ethical views will not change under any circumstances! I am also a firm believer in 'just because you can, doesn't mean you should', especially as regards some areas of medical/bio-medical research and developments (past and present). Some of my views have changed over the years in ways which haven't suited me, I have liked i but I've had to acknowledge that my view was erroneous (and not necessarily through a lack of education).

I think a lot of 'born again' religious types probably have this kind of experience, where they go from living a lifestyle which is either actively 'sinful' and then have a moment of revelation, or just find a new meaning which changes their perspective. The change might benefit them in the long term, but I imagine it is quite difficult in the short term. And of course, there is always Earl and his list...