would you raise this issue with the teacher?

[froubylou]

DD is 9 and in Y5 at school. Doing very well and always has done. Never any issues with her behaviour, never been in trouble, always loved school. With regards her work she is very bright. In Y6 for maths and top of Y6. Top set for reading, english etc. Always 10/10 spellings. Reads for fun, likes school work blah blah blah.

I am very proud of her academic achievements but know that although compared to the class she is in she is bright, she is not a child genius or anything like that. But she does very well.

Since being in Y1 the main thing she has always been targeted on is the speed of her work, in particular written work. Her handwriting is beautiful (even though she is left handed) and she is always the first to get a handwriting pen. She always tries to do everything she is asked to do. Such as use Wow words, extend her sentances, use joiners etc etc etc.

This does tend to slow her down a little compared to the other children. They may be asked for 5 sentances and all do the 5 sentances, it's just DD's sentances will be 3 times the length of everyone elses.

As 'issues' go it's not a major one. Her speed will pick up in time as all the new skills she is learning, as well as things like spelling become automatic and she can do these things without having to think about them.

In the meantime she has always gone to the 'behaviour room' at break times to complete work. Even if it has take all of a break to get it done, and last week she missed 2 breaks.

I don't have a problem with this and neither really does DD. She just accepts it and when I've asked why she has to make every single piece of work perfect she just says that's the way she is.

However, since moving into the new class at the start of term she has also had to miss 4 Golden Times. Golden times are the friday afternoon 'fun lesson' that all the kids, including DD look forwards to all week. It was introduced to give all the well behaved kids a reward for being well behaved. You miss Golden Time if you haven't done your homework OR you have been naughty and gone through the behaviour scale ie warning, time outs etc etc.

She has missed them as she has been sent to the behaviour room to complete literacy work they have done on a Thursday afternoon. So although she may have already missed her friday morning break she hasn't got it completed and has to miss her Golden Time.

DD upset about this and TBH so am I. Missing Golden Time is a punishment, and as far as I can see she is being punished for not completing work which is very different to being naughty. She won't have gone through the behaviour scale for it. If she was missing out because she was chatting when she's supposed to be working or messing around etc then I would accept it. But not for caring a bit too much what work she hands in.

Its Parents Evening on wednesday. WIBU to raise this issue with the teacher and ask for her to bring any incomplete work home rather than miss golden time. And to ask what support DD is getting to help her manage her time more effectively? Its been raised since Y1 and I have never met a teacher who can give me solutions yet to the issue that she has, and all have said they would rather her hand in work she does at the standard she does than rush it.

But from DDs point of view she won't always be able to do the work at another time. So I think they need to help her with this rather than take away Golden Time?

And FWIW normally I would just go in and say all this BUT am 31 weeks pg and I really don't like this teacher and find her ineffective at best so don't want to be 'that mother' if it is just me being unreasonable?

Sorry for epic post, maybe I need to miss some gold time too lol.

Raise it but in a positive way that you and dd are disappointed she missed golden time and you'd like the school to help you support her to speed up.

Be prepared for them to say she's daydreaming or chatting too much (you're not there in class so can't say 100% she isn't although it doesn't sound like it to me)

She does need to learn the style a pp referred to "the best you can in the time you have". Nothing you do will ever be perfect. You could always go back and make it better. So if we never accepted anything that was good but not perfect, no one would ever get anything done. Time limits and deadlines exist throughout our lives in school and work and she needs to be taught to cope with them better.

Read read read! I understand grammar and use if language because I read like a demon as a child, I couldn't tell you the proper names for it but I can use it.

Definitely bring it up.

My ds has this problem too. He has Aspergers, so he had an assessment from an educational psychologist when he was 10. It was really helpful, as part of the test was a measure of IQ. I was told they measure five separate things to give a range of what his IQ could be, and I can't remember now what all of the five things were, but basically he came out as being well above average in four areas which gave him a well above average IQ, but his processing speed came out as being well below average. At the time the guy said that's quite common.

Now that we know that formally, he has been able to have extra time in exams, and his secondary school teachers are aware so he doesn't get told off for taking a long time, as long as they can see that he has been concentrating.

His writing went from being beautifully neat and joined up to being a bit scruffy and not joined up, but he can write more quickly that way so that's what he does. We had to convince him that it didn't matter if it looked a bit messier, quality and quantity of work in a given time was more important than handwriting looking good.

It also helps when he is told exactly how many sentences he has to write in a given time, or how far down the page he has to write, and he's been able to build it up over the last couple of years.

I teach year 5 and make the distinction with my class that if your work is not completed and you have worked, there is no consequence other than we will look together at why it wasn't completed, but if your work is not completed because you weren't working, you stay in go finish it. I wouldn't take break or golden time off a child like your DD, but would look at ways to speed up, set targets to help etc. I would raise it.

Was going to suggest what angus did with the egg timer. My DS (also 9 and yr 5) has a timer. He does have SEN and is a slow writer and does not use grammer! complicated words but it helps him see when he has to end the task. (he's being assessed for ASD/dyspraxia so the polar opposite problem re writing!)

If your DD is a perfectionist and puts lots of pressure on herself that is also classed as an SEN because it risks her written work being uncompleted and risks her self esteem to complete tasks. Throw that one at the teacher!

It also helps when he is told exactly how many sentences he has to write in a given time, or how far down the page he has to write, and he's been able to build it up over the last couple of years. My DS has this too.

can you ask the teacher to support dd in making her sentences more concise?
This is a skill that some children do struggle with and she may need to have this explained specifically to really understand how to achieve it.

I agree that she shouldn't be missing golden time which is a 'punishment.'

Why does she have to write "five sentences in 15 minutes"?

Surely "a paragraph" is more sensible? .

Anyway, I think its good that the teachers don't want to rush her! Its just about finding a way of doing it without it becoming a punishment ...?

She is probably a little young op but nanowrimo is good for forcing writing speed up. The whole idea is to encourage the creativity of writing without editing a lot or seeking perfection- though in nano you do edit after the month is up.

You could sign up to the forums and see their ideas. You can word set-up write as much as poss in a specific time and then try to beat your score or set a target word number and then race to hit it.

"Why does she have to write "five sentences in 15 minutes"?"

Because that is what the task is!

Wow.

Lots and lots of very helpful replies and ideas, thank you so much for your feedback. It really is helpful to see this from all sides.

Some of the ideas I will definately suggest to her teacher. I think the egg timer/stop watch would work brilliantly. I use something similar with her at home for tidying her room. So I think that would help.

Also the take a long sentance and shorten it as much as possible game she would love. And will definatetly help focus her more on getting things concise.

I fully intended to ask the teacher to give her more support and help her with this rather than go in saying they were being too harsh taking her golden time away without offering support so I am glad others have said I should do this.

One of the issues the school has (and it's probably the same across the country) is pushing the more able children to reach their maximum potential. And I think this is perhaps what is happening with my DD. She is very bright compared to her peers and is working a lot of the time on Y6 stuff particularly in maths. Her English suffers because of her inability to complete tasks in the required time, but the general view has always been 'if she could finish it every time it would be way above what she should be at'. Which is fine and nice and good BUT from what I can remember from being that age, it's also easy to coast and get bored and de-motivated.

However, I believe there is a very fine line at 9/10 yo between pushing them to achieve their potential and pushing them too hard. So I have perhaps let her coast a little. Homework generally gets done at homework club so I don't really supervise that. This gives us time to work on specific issues at home a little more so will ask the teacher for guidance on the topics they are working on etc and what her targets are for this school year.

Reading wise she reads for fun rather than the school books available. Think she has read all of them anyway! She has read all the Harry Potters, is currently reading the Tilly pony books, has done a lot of the Enid Blyton ones (my old books), has had a go at Black Beauty (but found it boring), and has asked if she can read the Twilight Saga when she has finished the Tilly Series. I'm not sure what level these books would be at but can find out.

So lots to raise with her teacher on Wednesday night and lots to discuss. And I am quite prepared to hear that she isn't the little angel I believe her to be lol. I'd love it if she was missing out on Golden Time cos she is a gobshite like her mother rather than struggling to finish tasks. But I very much doubt it to be honest.

Ask the teacher to organise the 'Speed Up' programme by LDA for your DD.

Froubylou - no problem, hope the game and the stopwatch help! It sounds like she's a good reader already, but could do with something a little more stretching.

Some of Jacqueline Wilson's books are great (although you need to choose carefully, as others are very "mature" in content for a Y5) - I'd recommend the Hetty Feather trilogy, Double Act, Tracy Beaker, The Lottie Project, and The Suitcase Kid. Robert Swindells and Anne Fine are both great authors to introduce her to at this point, as well. If you're happy for her to read Twilight then Swindells's Jacqueline Hyde, Hydra, Room 13, and Abomination will probably go down well with her, as will Anne Fine's Step By Wicked Step, Crummy Mummy And Me, etc.

However, the very best literature available for very bright children of her age is by Terry Pratchett, IMO. He's written a few books for younger readers, most notably the Tiffany series: Wee Free Men, A Hat Full Of Sky, Wintersmith, and I Shall Wear Midnight (the last of which is quite dark, but will be age appropriate by the time she gets there). If she likes those, maybe try her on some of the lighter Discworld books - Equal Rites (about a 12 year old feminist who wants to become a wizard even though it's a man's job) is a great place to start, and The Monstrous Regiment also has a lot of appeal for bright children of about her age.

My last recommendation depends on how emotionally resilient she is - it might be prudent to wait a while. I'm sure you've heard of Michael Morpurgo's war stories - War Horse, The Amazing Story of Adolphus Tips, Private Peaceful (very sad), and Medal for Leroy all spring to mind. War Horse and Private Peaceful are both incredible and would fit very well with the work on WW1 and WW2 that most schools do in Y6, if she can cope with the distressing bits.

Oh, and has she read much Roald Dahl yet? (The short stories for adults might be appropriate for her if she's grown out of the thoroughly wonderful children's books.)

Hope that helps! Let me know if you'd like any more recommendations, I love children's literature!

Hi froubylou, I was just like your DD - usually top of my class but s-l-o-w, partly because I wasn't confident and didn't want to commit to putting ideas on paper. I spent ages making insignificant changes and so not finishing. I'd also daydream, because at the top of the class I could get away with coasting.

I now teach writing to adults (pthpsth!!!the irony) and I do get slow writers, often from cultures / personalitites which value perfection and presentation. Obviously what works with adults isn't the same as with children, but I use eg timing, freewriting, prompts (that's fine, move on to the next paragraph) and work on their ability to evaluate and correct their own work - if necessary and often it isn't - within a time limit and with an awareness of task requirements. It's great that you want to solve this, as it's really held me back in study and at work.

I would second Terry Pratchett, he uses a wide range of vocabulary and is generally creative with language and style, a very good example for an able reader to jazz up their writing - and without using lots of words too, Pratchett is able to say a lot in a short phrase.

If you're interested in other reading material which is challenging but emotionally age appropriate I would recommend Diana Wynne Jones - especially her young adult ones. Hexwood, Fire and Hemlock, The Homeward Bounders, Deep Secret and the Merlin Conspiracy spring to mind. There's also Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising series and Seaward, which is much more YA but full of myth and poetry.

Thank you all so much for the reading recommendations. I was running out of ideas!

She has read most of the Roald Dahl books (2 years ago!). I've gone through the classics I enjoyed as a child but think I was about a year too late with some of the Enid Blyton ones but she has read and enjoyed some of them. Though we found The Famous Five a little dated (or she did at least).

I will definatly look at the Terry Pratchet ones for her. I remember reading a lot of his stuff when I was a teenager and thoroughly enjoying them. Did he write the Dragon Riders series or am I thinking of someone else? I think she would love those but they were borrowed from an elder cousin and I can't remember who wrote them. I'd happily read them again myself I think!

I have so far avoided the Jacqueline Wilson books. I don't like the Tracey Beaker series on TV to be honest but if she specifically asked for them I would. The Twilight series is on my list to review for her before I let her read them. She has seen the films (with her father which I was cross about) and enjoyed them and didn't seem affected at all but I want to check the content first.

We have tried to watch War Horse. But ended in floods of tears when Joey went off to war so we have put it to one side for now lol. and being 31 weeks pg I don't think I could cope with it at the min either. Caught the end of Lassie the other day and had headache for an hour after sobbing.

I will also look at Diane Wynne Jones. She's a funny child my DD. Very sure of what is right and what is wrong and very serious about some things. Has strong opinions and is willing to debate issues far more adult than what a 9/10 yo would normally consider. But then in the next breath will happily want to talk about make up and fashion design and ponies and so on. As well as being academic she is also quite creative too so want her to enjoy both things without the emphasis being on achievements in school. But this issue does need addressing now and she needs to be able to complete tasks to the standards she wants, but in the timeframes allowed.

I definately think expanding her reading choices will help her understand different writing styles and different ways to get her ideas across. I think most of the timing issues is with creative writing rather than factual stuff. She has struggled in the past with being left handed and worked very, very hard on her handwriting. But has no problems at all in maths. Apparantly she is on the top table in Y6 for maths even though as a july baby she is one of the younger ones in Y5. So certainly doesn't struggle (I don't think) with the physical act of writing now, though they use pencil in maths books rather than those beril handwriting pens.

I will update you all when I have spoken to the teacher and take it from there. But thanks again for all your input and ideas. I don't want to be too PFB/shouty/pushy mum blaming poor teacher for everything my DD needs to work on but equally I think it is important to be the best ambassador for your DC as you can.

dragon riders -anne macaffery?

Your DD us the same as mine she's a little younger but spends more time thinking about what she writes than actually doing it IYSWIM, then when she gets down to it is a total perfectionist about what it looks like. She doesn't lose Golden Time though, her teacher marks her work up to where she got to and then talks her through the rest, they work out a strategy for next time, eg, 2 minutes to think about each sentence ( they use the clock hands) and then she writes it down. She's getting much better.

Just re Diana Wynne Jones - I love her books, but Hexwood and Fire and Hemlock are two that I wouldn't recommend for a 9 year old - not because the content is unsuitable, but because the narrative structure is complex (especially with Hexwood, where you discover at the end that none of what the narrator thought she was experiencing was 'true') and in my experience it can leave a younger reader baffled. 'The Ogre Downstairs' is linear and probably a better read. Her Chrestomanci series is also well written for that age group.

The Dragonriders of Pern aren't suitable for primary school readers, in my opinion - the opening novel makes a lot of references to coercive sex.

GrendelsMum re Hexwood and Fire and Hemlock I'd say it would have to depend on the 9yo and I wouldn't dismiss them out of hand. I agree that they are more challenging though. It might be worth having them as reading out loud books, that way it's possible to talk about what's happening and why the author is writing the way she is.

I also agree re Dragonriders of Pern, I would not be happy for my DD1 to read the opening book and she's 12.

I can't remember that about the dragonriders? They are the ones I was thinking (thank you goldenfool) but I was in comprehensive before I read them.

If they are available on kindle I might have to order them for research purposes. Then I can re read and make sure they are appropriate! I remember dragons and romance and strong female roles in it. But possibly a bit too old just now.

I am looking forward to a time when we can share books. DD and DP will watch a movie together whereas I would rather read the book. DP won't read but DD will happily do both.

I've only read the Talents series by Anne McCaffery and she writes in a very odd way, a bit like Piers Anthony, a bit waffly in all honesty, good books but not written in a way even a very good reader could necessarily follow at age 9.

froubyloo in the first book there's a scene when the male and female protagonists dragons are mating and therefore the human characters ed up having sex. It's short and not very explicit, but there's definitely elements of coercion in it, and it's treated as 'oh well, they were caught up in the passion of their dragons' in a very offhand way afterwards. That is probably because the book was written in the 1970s when sensibilities were different - after all, this was the time when the 'Fill in the Blank of Gor' series was readily available in all bookshops, and that was really a nasty misogynist series of shite that would not get shelf space now. Anne McCaffrey's stuff is mild by comparison, but I would still not think it appropriate for a 9yo, and many 12yos would have difficult questions.

When I was at primary school, for a while I equated quality with quantity. So if we were asked to write a story, I thought I had done the task better if it was a long story than if it was a short one. I think this was a hangover from very early years, where getting a kid to write a long sentence with all the letters in the right order is a major achievement and praised accordingly.

My teacher sat me down and explained that it was saying things well that mattered, not wordiness. She showed me some examples where 'less is more' - because it's clearer, and expresses things more simply. She also taught me about haikus and aphorisms and got me to write some shorter pieces. It helped a lot! perhaps something similar could work for your dd so she doesn't miss her golden time any more?

I think the way you are planning to approach this is very sensible. You shouldn't be seen as 'that parent'.

I have an able Y6 English class. Those at the top of that enjoy books such as:
Little Women/Secret Garden/A Little Princess/Black Beauty etc
The Twilight Series (though personally I think they're a bit inappopriate)
Eva Ibbotson (Journey to the River Sea, A Company of Swans etc)
The Diamond of Drury Lane series
Twisted Fairy Tales such as The Looking Glass Wars or The Sisters Red
Malorie Blackman (Pigheart Boy, Thief, Noughts and Crosses Series)
Jacqueline Wilson stuff
Modern Classics (Holes, Skellig, The Silver Sword, Little White Horse etc)
A Series of Unfortunate Events
Northern Lights Trilogy
Michelle Magorian (Goodnight Mister Tom, Back Home, Cuckoo in the Nest)

Just a quick update on what happened at the Parents Evening.

The issue of not finishing work was raised by the teacher pretty early on in the meeting. I asked why she wasn't finishing it. As I thought it is because she is trying too hard to get everything in. I asked what additional support she has had to address that and what I could work on at home to help her finish her work every single time as I felt it was unfair for her to be missing break times and especially golden time if she had an issue we weren't helping her with.

Teacher got a bit flustered. So I suggested that I could send her with a stopwatch if the teacher could give her clear instructions on when it has to be done and it would be up to me at home to help her use the watch to break the work up into timed segments. Teacher then said it wasn't that serious an issue and she would rather her carry on doing the work to a very high standard rather than rush!

So I pointed out that if it was serious enough to miss golden time then it was a serious issue to me, and more importantly to DD. And that she needed to address it now and we needed to work together to support her in doing this.

She's going to speak to the Y6 teacher who has DD for numeracy and try and get a plan together and we will all sit down and look at it together. Apparantly her numeracy is being handed in with time to spare though so think she is using the Y6 teacher for a bit of extra support.

I then asked about targets and what levels she is at. She is currently at the top end of 4B for numeracy, and the lower end of 4B for literacy which would be higher if she completed all the work. Teacher expects her to be 5C for literacy and 5C/B for maths by the end of the year. I'm not too fussed where she ends up as long as she makes progress throughout the year.

I did make it very clear though that I didn't expect Golden Time to be missed in the future. And if there was an issue (ie unfinished work) that could cause this I would like to be contacted to come in and discuss it. Teacher said it's policy to miss golden time if they don't do work, TA (who was sat in) said it wasn't UNLESS the work wasn't finished due to bad behaviour.

So I suppose I was 'that mother' but in a positive way I hope. And hopefully DD will get a bit more support. But I have told DD I expect her to work really hard to get the work finished and if she can't then to ask for her before the end of the lesson. That way the teacher can review what she has done so far and hopefully help her out a bit.

We shall see.