to genuinely not understand why smoking is vilified

[Redpipe]

and yet drinking, overeating and other addictions that cost the NHS huge sums of money are not?

AIBU to genuinely not understand why it is just smokers in this country that are socially unaccepted?

I guess it's hard to accept that a habit you've had for years and which has been integrated into all aspects of your daily life, suddenly becomes socially less acceptable and forbidden in some of the places you feel you need it most.

That change, however, is progress and just as hitting children, drink driving and exploiting women have become less prolific as they have become less socially acceptable, this move should reduce the numbers of smokers and therefore the massive costs to society.

Smoking = bad idea
Drinking to excess = bad idea
Eating to excess = bad idea
Drugs = bad idea

I don't do any of these things and I never have. i will polish my halo I understand there are sometimes other factors to consider but generally I disapprove of all of these things. I owe it to my family and myself to stay healthy and I choose not to do any of these things.

I find it soooo hard to understand why anyone would smoke and, even though I know that it can be extremely hard to stop, I don't understand why people continue to smoke. It is so expensive! and it stinks, really, really stinks

What a ridiculous post backonlybriefly

I would rip shreds off anyone I knew who drove drunk, I would have no problem with being extremely rude and hostile to them and report them to the police as well.

I'm amazed smoking is as socially acceptable as it is, given how smokers on very low incomes will often be depriving their children of decent food, holidays and entertainment in order to fund a drug habit costing maybe £20 or £30 a week.

The OP is insisting that nobody has any problem with drinking, over eating and addiction to other drugs.

I worry about ALL of these things. I think most of us do.

My quality of life has improved out of all recognition since smoking became socially unacceptable. I can attend parties, spend a whole day at work and travel on public transport without becoming ill.

Dh hasn't had an asthma attack in years: in fact, the "cure" of his asthma coincided exactly with the ban on smoking in public places.

If the price that has to be paid for this is that smokers feel judged, then I'm afraid that doesn't worry me all that much. Feeling judged is not as bad as watching someone you love unable to breathe- really, it's not.

Breathing in a tiny bit of smoke won't cause cancer, but it can trigger an asthma attack!

While I disagree with the OP on smoking, I read the original question as: why vilify certain types of unhealthy behaviour as irresponsible (smoking), and not others (obesity)?

Now I appreciate that social pressure (aka vilification) has a role to play in getting us all to make healthier choices. The government is pouring lots of money into 'nudge' initiatives to get us to make healthier choices at the moment. It has the advantage of being cheap. But I worry that it's just a sticking plaster that avoids deeper changes that are needed.

For instance, I am not sure that vilifying people who make bad food choices is as effective as solving the underlying circumstances that are contributing to those choices. Like poverty (or, at the opposite end of the social spectrum, time poverty). Or the work done by the food industry to create magical thinking around food ('this chocolate bar can make you happy, sexy, bright-eyed and fulfilled').

To those who say 'it's up to the individual to be strong', I say this: whenever there is a public holiday, and especially at Christmas, I am always surprised at the number of people I see out jogging. The moment people have time to do so, many do start to look after themselves. But if we fill people's working lives with so much stress and pressure that they can barely get through the day, then their capacity to live healthy lives is reduced, and they are more likely to reach for high fat, high sugar, high salt foods rather than healthier options. So I would argue that we need structural change - like getting workplaces and working hours to be healthier and more family-friendly, has to be a huge part of the battle.

errmm have you not seen all the press / Tv stuff about alcohol and drunks on the streets? all the stigma about drug users? all are 'villified' but smoking is the one that has the greatest affect on people who choose not to smoke or who live with a smoker.

Ah yes, another fat hatred thread disguised as 'concern' for fat people's health or effects on NHS spending.

What about people who do dangerous sports? Or cyclists and other road users? It's their fault if they have an an accident after all and yet still use the NHS.

I don't think smokers are vilified other than being forced to smoke outside which the majority of smokers are quite happy to do. People are naive if they think that the Government wants people to stop smoking. Smoking is a huge source of revenue in this country.

And yet, my God, dare to be a stone overweight and according to MN, you are apparently about 5 minutes away from dropping dead of a heart attack and are personally responsible for NHS financial problems.

Why is it ok to tell a smoker that they stink, but not fat people or those with poor hygiene? It's rude, I fucking hate the smell of perfume, but I don't tell anyone wearing it how offensive they smell.

I don't think this is a 'fat hatred' thread, and I do think we need a mature debate about how much responsibility individuals bear for their health problems. Not least because in some very high level meetings, some very powerful people are starting seriously to raise the idea that individuals should be made to contribute financially to healthcare for conditions that are due to lifestyle choices. So it's important that there is a wider discussion in society about individual/collective responsibilities for health, because some difficult decisions about how we fund the health system are around the corner.

(For the record, I fall into the camp of being extremely against individuals contributing financially in this way, partly because I believe that the determinants of ill health to a great extent structural, not individual).

I don't go around telling people they stink of cigarette smoke.
But...I think it's important that smokers are not allowed to minimise this. It is rank. If you were standing in front of me, emanating faggy smells, I wouldn't say anything, but I feel quite comfortable telling 'smokers' as a group that the smell is vile.

Some commentary on the impact of a ban on smoking in public places:

"In April, 2010 the Canadian Medical Association Journal published a study evaluating the effects of a 10-year, three-stage smoke-free regulatory programme in Toronto. The study found that during the implementation of a restaurant smoke-free ordinance, hospital admissions for cardiovascular conditions declined by 39%, and admissions for respiratory conditions declined by 33%. No significant reductions in hospital admissions occurred in other cities which did not have smoke-free ordinances"

Sadly, it's still legal to smoke all over your family in your own home or in your car.

11000 people in the UK still die from passive smoking every year.

My HR director at my last job had to tell a colleague he had a body odour issue and could he attend to it.

She also said client facing staff could not go stinking of fags.

You can tell people they stink in some circs!

Can I add - I don't blame smokers.

They are victims of addiction.

Nobody can exercise a truly free choice to smoke - the nature of addiction makes that impossible.

The only reason people smoke (who smoke regularly) is because they're addicted to it. Those people who say 'but I enjoy it' and 'it relaxes me' - yes of course it does. Because if you create an itch, then scratching that itch is going to make it feel better, and give you feelings of relief. And if you repeat that action thousands and thousands of times at moments of tension throughout the day you will soon come to associate the sensation of relaxation and relief in the face of stress, with having a fag.

I think the government should do everything it can to encourage smokers to release themselves from their addiction. The smoking ban and making cigs obscenely expensive is a good start.

Nobody can exercise a truly free choice to smoke - the nature of addiction makes that impossible.

They made a free choice to start. Here's a good idea for avoiding becoming addicted to something: don't start taking it.

I know smokers who love the picture of themselves as 'victims' and actually that line of rhetoric plays right into their hands. They don't consider themselves responsible and it reinforces how very very hard it is to give up. So they carry on and woe is me etc.

I don't think it's enormously useful. I'm concerned that we are supposed to show tolerance for this and help people feel better about themselves. Why? My father had throat cancer, consultant said he was 90% certain it was due to passive smoking (both parents then two wives smoked around him, he never smoked except passively). I'm not interested in whether or not the smokers are victims. They know this sort of thing happens, they know they are responsible to whatever degree, but people tell them it's all ok because they are addicted. It's not good enough.

I do think the other habits/NHS burdens you mentioned are equally vilified. My maternal grandmother died of lung cancer due to her smoking (four cigarettes a day). She was only 62. She had about eight months to live after they discovered the cancer. When I was a child, I thought she looked incredibly glamorous with her long ebony cigarette holder. Her death when I was 11 made me realise the not so glamorous health effects. She was so beautiful with a good business and it's such a waste.

Forgot to add that she refused to cook with microwaves as she was convinced that they cause cancer but she still smoked! Sadly, I think she thought that only smoking four cigarettes a day instead of a whole pack wouldn't have any harmful effects.

victims?

victims? eyeroll

I am a victim of nailbiting. it is terrible, woe is me I can do nothing about it. where does it end honestly

and you do stink. I may not be hugely polite to tell you to your face, but you do!!!

"They made a free choice to start. Here's a good idea for avoiding becoming addicted to something: don't start taking it."

Apparently in Wales the average age people start smoking is 12.

I don't know what it is for the rest of the UK but I don't imagine it will be radically different.

Most people start smoking when they're young and stoopid. By the time they've grown up and realised what a fucking awful habit it is they're well and truly hooked. Many will spend the rest of their lives trying to rationalise their addiction, before about half of them go on to die from smoking related illnesses.

"victims? eyeroll"

Apparently 70% of smokers want to stop, and each year about half will try to quit. Only a tiny minority will succeed, despite knowing the habit is putting their lives at risk.

None of the people I know who smoke are what I'd describe as weak willed. I am weak willed on the other hand, and yet I managed to kick a 12 year 20 a day habit overnight. I don't know why I could do it but other people who I consider stronger and more determined than me haven't been able to stay quitted.

There really is more to defeating addiction than how strong your will is.

I know its just the term victim is a bit ott

yes you are struggling with a terrible addiction (I have my own addictions - cake and coffee and coke) but I wouldnt say I am a victim.

its just such an ott turn of phrase imo.

if someone had mugged you for your cigs then you would be a victim. it just feeds into the woe is me I am so vilified and can't help it mindset

"yes you are struggling with a terrible addiction (I have my own addictions - cake and coffee and coke) but I wouldnt say I am a victim.

its just such an ott turn of phrase imo".

If you are addicted to a drug which has a 50% likelihood of killing you, you want to give up and find yourself unable to, you are a victim. And so are your family.