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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think it would be kinder to sterilise Baby P's mother?

142 replies

Nokidsnoproblem · 13/10/2013 11:16

I've been thinking about this since the other day. On the Baby P thread many poster's were saying that if Tracy were to get pregnant again then the baby would be removed at birth.

However I cannot help but think that the more sensible option would be to not release her until she agrees to be sterilised?

This may seem cruel, however she has unfortunately proven that she is not capable of looking after a child. Any child she brings into the world will be taken into the care system, where there are already thousands of children needing a home.

Unfortunately there is no perfect way to deal with a case like this. You will get criticism whatever your opinion. However I feel that this would be the kindest option for all involved.

OP posts:
Alisvolatpropiis · 13/10/2013 14:50

filee

Why is it absurd?

She's been in prison for 6 years. There will have been extensive measure to rehabilitate her.

filee777 · 13/10/2013 14:52

To rehabilitate her to that extent? I would be seriously worried if TC's rehabilitation was 'pro life'

Serendipity30 · 13/10/2013 14:57

Forced termination is not rare, it is done in China

Wuxiapian · 13/10/2013 14:59

YANBU, OP.

There's a real underclass emerging in this country, born out of ignorant, low-grade people such as baby Peter's mother.

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved · 13/10/2013 15:01

Trouble is, sterilisation of women is something that is a bigger issue than this one case.

Alot of people would like to take the choice of having children away from several sections of the population. Yes, even today, or maybe especially today. This may not bother you or feel a bit academic unless you happen to be close to or in one of those groups of people.

Then historical and current beliefs take on a very relevant and horrifying meaning.

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 13/10/2013 15:11

She had another baby in prison didn't she?
A baby girl?

filee777 · 13/10/2013 15:12

She was pregnant with barkers child, which I imagine has been adopted.

GiveItYourBestShot · 13/10/2013 15:14

reallytired, you are a better person than me. I want Tracy Connelly not ony to suffer painful periods but to suffer every single blow and injury that her son suffered and that she not only failed to protect him from, but actively deceived the many agencies that tried to help her family into thinking were accidents.

pumpkinsweetie · 13/10/2013 15:15

Keeping her locked up would have been more logicall, failing that i agree with op in a case where a person has previous convictions of hurting, murdering or allowing/causing their child to be abused/killed.

pumpkinsweetie · 13/10/2013 15:17

Totally agree GiveIt, have no sympathy for this woman, as far as i'm concerned she has it easy after what baby peter endured.

filee777 · 13/10/2013 15:19

What worries me most is that we, as a society still focus on the necessity of family in child abuse cases rather than the rights of the child to a safe and pain free life.

We are enshrined in this 'a bad home is better than a good institution' bullshit.

Where do we draw the line? TC was failed by social services and in turn so was baby Peter.

It's time we prioritised the children so as to prevent the ongoing cycles of abuse.

Alisvolatpropiis · 13/10/2013 15:30

filee

I meant why is it absurd to think she would opt for a long term contraceptive.

The thought she might have another child turns my stomach. However I imagine that any child she does have will be removed at birth. I believe this is the case with the baby she gave birth to in whilst in prison.

mrsjay · 13/10/2013 15:34

you can't force anybody to be sterilised I do agree with you she shouldn't be be able to get pregnant again ever she is not fit to have children in her life she refuses to keep them safe she allowed and took part in abuse and neglect of her children. I don't know what the solution is

zatyaballerina · 13/10/2013 15:35

It's not, as some people here are saying, 'akin to Nazism' to sterilise a woman to tortured her own kid to death and exposed others to severe abuse, it's common sense. There is a huge difference between persecuting and eliminating entire groups of people because they belong to a minority hated by the political class and preventing convicted child killers from reproducing.

yanbu. I'd also add drug addicts and alcoholics to the list, it's inhumane to allow them to abuse and permanently disable children before they are born.

filee777 · 13/10/2013 15:39

But alcoholics and drug abusers can be rehabilitated, this is exactly the issue

who makes the desicion about who gets sterilised?

best to just not do it surely.

mrsjay · 13/10/2013 15:40

I Just don't know why any woman who allows these things to happen to her children is allowed her fertility in tact and free to get pregnant again I don't think forced sterilisation should be a blanket thing it really should be a case by case thing

roadwalker · 13/10/2013 15:43

I would like to see a way to prevent babies being born that still respects the human rights of mothers

I think in the US they pay addicts to have the pill injection

My adopted child is so damaged by drugs and alcohol, babies before her died and others have been born since addicted to heroin and with FAS
On here I was actually told that I wasn't fit to adopt because I have bad feelings about her BM!!
This was at a very low point in my life when our house had been set on fire and a pet harmed
My DD is capable of great harm that you wouldn't believe in a young child
I fear for her future and spend countless hours trying to get help for her
I love her and will continue to fight for help and support

filee777 · 13/10/2013 15:45

I dont know if such a way exists, at the moment we always put the rights of the mother ahead of the rights of the child

something i would love to see changed in my lifetime.

roadwalker · 13/10/2013 15:47

Oh, and for those who accused me of having no tolerance for women in difficult circumstances
My DD's birthmother was born into a more privileged life than I was, actually had a good education and career before getting involved in drugs
There is such a double standard on here
Male addicts - scum
female child abusers= victim

Dawndonnaagain · 13/10/2013 15:50

There's a real underclass emerging in this country, born out of ignorant, low-grade people such as baby Peter's mother.
Marie Stopes is alive and well and posting on Mumsnet.
Hmm

lovesmellingthecoffee · 13/10/2013 15:50

Absolutely agree with the OP that sterilization should be an option when dealing with these cases of inadequate parenting for both genders. I have worked in a prison and some things the women are in for doing to their children is absolutely sickening. there are some behaviors that mean you have relinquished the right to parent hood.

What makes it worse is that there are many people out there who would make fabulous parents who are denied the chance through infertility.

mrsjay · 13/10/2013 15:51

YABU. It's a slippery slope to Nazism.

No it isn't Hmm

BlingBang · 13/10/2013 15:54

It would be best if all those involved were sterilised. Probably best if they were all dead or at least banged up for the rest of their lives. But I don't want to live in a country that has that kind of control.

mrsjay · 13/10/2013 15:56

is there not optional chemical castration for paedophiles in the UK as part of rehabilitation ?

Dawndonnaagain · 13/10/2013 15:58

mrsjay
Yes it is. As has been pointed out, where do we start, where do we stop, the parameters will always be moved.

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