People being abusive on buses

[plecofjustice]

I really can't decide whether I'm being unreasonable or not....

Waiting for a bus today - it's been throwing down with rain, so all public transport is very disrupted, lots of cold, wet people at the bus stops, trains up the creek, etc. A man is waiting at the bus stop, he quite obviously has some sort of fairly serious learning disability/difference - the way he's commenting on the various buses, reading the routes, etc and his physical appearance. Anyway, a bus arrives and a lot of people pile towards the front door, including this man. The driver keeps the front door shut until people can organise themselves - it was getting quite dangerous, people pushing each other into the road, etc.

The driver opens the back door to let people off first, and this man with LD gets on the back door. The driver tells him to get off, and that he's not going to move or open the front door until he gets off and gets on the front (fairly normal for London bus drivers).

This man launches into a tirade of abuse, calling the bus driver a c*, a m*f*er, etc and using threatening language. I found it quite frightening, and there were young children around as well.

AIBU to think that, if a person with LD is able to use the bus independently, they should be able to moderate their behaviour appropriately for public situations and that their support workers should be working with them to re-inforce appropriate behaviour in stressful situations?

how do you know his abusive behaviour had anything to do with LD?

And you know it was his learning difficulty causing him to behave in this manner, how?

ODFOD

Loads of people are randomly rude and abusive though, nothing to do with LD.

The first thing you think when you see a man who has evident LD, being rude in public, is "he needs to be controlled better"

Really tempted to tell you to fuck off.

This is tricky. I've worked in charities which support people with moderate to severe learning disabilities and have seen the amazing difference to independence and freedom that this (done properly) can make to the life of the individual and therefore on the lives of those caring for them, particularly elderly parents.

However, I live in South London and commute down to Croydon every day on the bus and the standard of 'normal' commuters' behaviour is horrendous. People using hairspray (happened to me this morning with a woman sitting right next to me ), listening to music on speaker, sprawling over two seats when people are standing, refusing to stand when a pregnant woman comes on board, refusing to fold a buggy when someone with a wheelchair wants to come on board... etc etc etc.

I am not sure how the poor sod of a bus driver is meant to differentiate between poor and threatening behaviour because of someone's learning difficulties when the general public behave pretty awfully anyway.

I don't think YABU particularly - far better for the person concerned to be trained as far as possible how to cope with problems on buses without resorting to swearing or unpleasant behaviour. But I dearly, dearly wish that many other public transport users would also learn a bit of consideration.

How do you even know that he has a LD? Just by the way he looks?

Oh just fuck right off.

People with LD's aren't animals, they are not "trained" to do anything. Ffs.

People with LD's are taught just like anybody else. They are taught how to cope with situations they may find stressful not trained to be good in public like a pet dog.

Oh dear.

Alis erm people do refer to it as travel training. I worked for a major national LD charity.

lessons

I appreciate that. I still dislike the term. I wasn't having a go at you, if I had been, I'd have bolded your name.

I just don't like people with LD's being referred to like that. I'm sorry it came across as a specific pop at you.

This is regarded as friendly banter in South London.

Umm - where did I use the word "trained"?

There are a number of syndromes which have distinctive physical symptoms in addition to a learning disability component - this man was displaying some of those physical symptoms in addition to behaviours consistent with the learning disability component, hence my conclusion that he had a degree of learning disability. Of course, he might just have been a f*kwit, but I'm sure if I said that, I'd be denounced as well when the details of the physical component came out!

My point is that, based on his responses to the timetable and the buses, he had received support in learning to use the bus service - he hadn't just been left to get on with it. Surely this support should involve appropriate behaviour when the service doesn't work in the way it's supposed to?

And lessons. I agree about what you've described, it's inconsiderate and rubbish behaviour from people. But I think it's a bit away from someone using the words c*t and mf**ker and threatening to bash someone (which I've heard from people without obvious disability, too, to be fair.)

this was South London, btw. And I've not heard it as bad as this except on the night bus, and that's a whole different story!

You know...I've seen my fair share of what you describe. I just see it as life tbh...it takes all sorts.
If you're uncomfortable then move away. What else can you do?

You sound woefully naive.

Alis fair enough - understand and appreciate the point. TBH haven't really thought about it properly before - thanks for picking it up though, useful to reflect on it!

op

You didn't, I picked up on something lessons said and was expressing my distaste for the term rather than having a go at anyone. It was a general statement not a finger pointing rant, honest.

I do think you are being unreasonable though. Perhaps the man you saw is usually totally fine on public transport but today, because he couldn't just get on the bus as normal it was a stressor, so he tried to get on though the wrong door and so it spiralled into him not behaving well.

Sure it probably wasn't pleasant for you but...maybe a little bit of compassion wouldn't go amiss.

OP you cant know if he had learning difficulties. Having said that, around where I live in south london yes there are very dishevelled looking people who shout and swear or sing randomly (I dont mind the singing...) One man in particular is very aggressive, I see him around & know that so if he's on the bus, I get off. I can't care what his needs are, its frightening and wherever possible I remove myself where Im not comfortable. I think this man must have looked unusual from what you've said. As soon as you posted I thought 'south london' actually..oh well..

Can we "train" people not to listen to music too loudly on public transport?
Can we "train" people to use deodorant before going out in public?
Can we "train" people to stop judging others by their appearance and making assumptions about their behaviour?

Although for those out there and vulnerable..I do feel sorry if theyre not getting the support they need

" erm people do refer to it as travel training. I worked for a major national LD charity."

It is now under the title of "independent living skills", anyone using "training etc" for what is a life skill, is out of date with their use of language.

Am I the only one who is surprised that out of all the people waiting for that bus, who then shoved each other out of the way and into the road! The OP choose to single out this man to start a thread on?
I agree that the OP doesn't know what is going on with him, it could be a number of things.

All I can say is, I'm glad I don't live in London and have to get public transport.

I thought my Uncle was exaggerating when he blamed his heart condition on his job as a London Bus Driver.

If he does have a condition then this is a case of the set up and nature of society disabling an individual, not their medical condition.

It the whole situation was less stressful, then it wouldn't of happened, there wouldn't of been such a loss if control.

Sounds as though the majority of the people waiting to board the bus, need supervising.

So many threads just now referring to people and children with SN like they are aggressive animals who need trained better before thy sre inflicted on the public. Very depressing

Regardless of whether or not this man had special needs, and whether they caused him to behave like this, he should not have boarded via the rear door and he should not have abused the bus driver like that.

If he did have special needs, and they did cause him to behave like this, he should not be using the bus service. Drivers do not deserve to suffer abuse like this.

If he did not have special needs, or they had nothing to do with this behaviour then he should certainly understand that this is not normal behaviour and he should not do it.

Whether or not he is learning how to use the buses, if he cannot be polite and civil he should not be on the bus. It's not fair on the driver or the other passengers.

I am a customer assistant for a bus company, and an incident like this would have resulted in a full incident report being submitted, including potentially involving the bus station PCSOs.

Special needs don't "cause people to be abusive".