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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think the new driving proposals are a fantastic idea?

107 replies

Sallystyle · 11/10/2013 13:03

Teenagers could have to wait a year longer than currently before they are allowed to take their driving test.

The government is considering issuing only 12-month probationary licences at the age of 18 in a bid to cut accidents involving young motorists.

New drivers would also face a curfew between 22:00 and 05:00 unless a passenger aged over 30 was in the car.
It recommended a one-year "learner stage" during which drivers would have to total at least 100 hours of daytime and 20 hours of night-time practice under supervision.

During this stage, drivers under the age of 30 would also be banned from carrying any passengers also under 30.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24485792

There is also talk about making motorway lessons mandatory.

OP posts:

PatPig · 11/10/2013 15:49

Sorry, I should say 'for 36-45 years the figure is 18%'.

Road deaths decline with age, but if you strip out the night they look pretty similar.

7am-8pm: for each age group (youngest to oldest)
278,193,244,167,123,139

8pm-7am
365,193,103,97,59,30

The death rate for 17-25 is only about 12% higher during daylight then 36-45, but over three times higher after dark.

MurderOfBanshees · 11/10/2013 15:50

PatPig For a start these proposals are aimed at anyone below 30, not 25. Secondly there are 17-35 year olds who need cars for night shifts/transporting their children/etc, and we need to know whether it's actually going to make a big enough difference to be worth fucking things up for them.

That figure is enormously high, but not necessarily relevant.

What we'd need to know is actually the percentage of 17-30 year olds who've been driving for less than a year, and who do not have a passenger aged over 30.

Then we'd need comparative figures on

17-30 yr olds driving over a year
17-30 yr olds driving under a year with a passenger over 30
Older drivers driving under a year
Older drivers driving over a year

Otherwise these measures may not achieve a damn thing.

Would also be interesting to know how many of that 64% are uninsured and haven't passed their test.

AKAK81 · 11/10/2013 15:51

Yes pat I guess the difficulty is allowing them to get the experience whilst minimising the risk.

PatPig · 11/10/2013 15:56

Well the data there is presented in terms of 17-25 and 26-35.

Those were just the segments they used for that old BBC article.

We don't know how from that particular much safer 26-30 is than 17-25 and how much safer 31-35 is than 26-30.

If you look at 36-45, it's quite similar to 46-55. It's likely therefore that age 35 demonstrates a similar 'after-dark death rate' to 36, just based on my assumption that there is a high death rate for youngest drivers after dark which declines to a certain level by a certain age and then stays more-or-less constant.

It's possible that '26-30' more closely fits the 'young and drunk' group and '30-35' falls into the 'middle aged and sober' category, we just don't know from these data.

I'm sure however that the government has access too all the info.

PatPig · 11/10/2013 15:57

AKAK81 it's not about experience IMO, it's more about keeping drunks off the road. I don't think it's an experience thing, it's the correlation between darkness and the consumption of alcohol and therefore drink driving

MurderOfBanshees · 11/10/2013 15:59

I think lowering the drink-drive limit would actually be a really good idea (to zero would be good) and not just for a probation period.

Lj8893 · 11/10/2013 16:00

So my dp who has just passed his test (we don't have a car yet so not relevant) wouldn't be able to drive me to the hospital when I go into labour in the next couple of weeks? He also wouldn't be able to drive me and our newborn home.
He wouldn't be able to drive himself home from work as he finishes at 10pm.
I would have to be the designated driver everytime we went anywhere, when actually he may well be a better and safer driver than me?!

FudgeyCookie · 11/10/2013 16:00

So all young drivers are a 'fucking menace' hey, PatPig? What a ridiculous statement! Not all young drivers are fucking menaces at all! Yes if they are drunk get them off the road but not ALL of the people in those statistics are drunks!

AKAK81 · 11/10/2013 16:04

Yes although I'm convinced there are a lot of folk my parent's age (mid 60s) that drive over the limit (not drunk but still over) and obviously the fatalities are nowhere near as high so I don't think that it's just a case of alcohol. Maybe its a combination of experience, much higher alcohol consumption and the teenage feeling of invincibility that causes these deaths?

redlac · 11/10/2013 16:07

Mandatory motorway lessons? Do they realise that vast tracks of Scotland and the islands don't have motorways?

FudgeyCookie · 11/10/2013 16:15

Cornwall doesn't hAve motorways either, the m5
Finishes just after Exeter. What would they do??

PatPig · 11/10/2013 16:30

FudgeyCookie drivers collectively are a menace to society, untold death and billions of pounds worth of damage. Individual drivers might be fine, but as a totality, drivers are the biggest threat to our lives. We can't effectively identify which ones are which.

So we place restrictions, such as not allowing under 17s to drive in order to balance the privileges that drivers enjoy against the death and destruction they cause.

PeazlyPops · 11/10/2013 16:34

Wow, I'm 26 and due to take my test soon, if I've read this right, then I wouldn't be able to drive my son or husband (he's 28) as I'd need someone over 30 as a passenger!

That's ridiculous! I'm a married mother but would end up needing one of my parents supervising me!

LittleMissWise · 11/10/2013 16:45

DS1(18) passed his test at 17 with 2 minors after 10 lessons. He has, also, done his pass plus. He is not a 'fucking menace'!

These proposals are ridiculous. We live rurally, I am disabled, DH is Forces so it is really, really useful for us to have DS1 driving. He is safe, he adheres to speed limits, he is confident and a damn sight more able than the old woman in the village who parks on the pavement, pulls out in front of cars and weaves all over the road!

DS2 will be 17 at Christmas, we already have his first block of lessons booked. The sooner he is driving the better.

PatPig · 11/10/2013 16:50

I don't think there's really any correlation between the number of mistakes you get on your test and your safety as a driver.

You can be a very confident driver, pass your test after a handful of lessons, and then drive like a maniac. It's not any kind of predictor.

Anyway, your son can drive you as I assume you are 30+, and in any case the probationary period only applies for 12 months.

LittleMissWise · 11/10/2013 16:55

So last Friday night, Pat when I needed to be in bed, DS1 picked DS2 up from a party at midnight. DH isn't here. Why should he not be able to do that when a less safe driver, who just happens to be older, can?

monicalewinski · 11/10/2013 16:58

I think it would make sense to limit the engine size for the first year (under 21s) and for the new driver (all ages) to be on a probation period for one year post test, with a pass+ style test after the probation year.

The alcohol limit should also be 0 (IMO).

TheWomanTheyCallJayne · 11/10/2013 17:02

I'm being glad that it's taken me ages to learnt do drive so aim now 32
I wasn't when I started but I still had 4 children.

Why after a certain time? In winter it's dark for the school run. In summer it's still light at 10. It can't be because it's more dangerous to drive in the dark.

Insurance is so expensive you get people passing their tests and then not driving for a couple of years. They then get behind the wheel (admittedly some may do a refresher but I bet most don't). Isn't this more dangerous and the likelihood of crashes higher if someone hasn't driven for that long when driving isn't an established part of them. The age 30 thing would also cause this problem. A 25 year old single mum wouldn't be able to drive and so would have to wait 5 years

The nine size thing would also have caused me problems. I have four children so need a people carrier. Immediately they have bigger engines just because of their sheer weight. Does t mean they're quick off the mark though

PatPig · 11/10/2013 17:05

So last Friday night, Pat when I needed to be in bed, DS1 picked DS2 up from a party at midnight. DH isn't here. Why should he not be able to do that when a less safe driver, who just happens to be older, can?

Because statistically 'DS1 picking up DS2 from a party at midnight' is incredibly dangerous.

Maybe not your DS1 and DS2, but young people driving home from parties are, collectively, incredibly dangerous.

Why can't my 11 year old drive my car?

MurderOfBanshees · 11/10/2013 17:07

"Insurance is so expensive you get people passing their tests and then not driving for a couple of years. They then get behind the wheel (admittedly some may do a refresher but I bet most don't). Isn't this more dangerous and the likelihood of crashes higher if someone hasn't driven for that long when driving isn't an established part of them. The age 30 thing would also cause this problem. A 25 year old single mum wouldn't be able to drive and so would have to wait 5 years "

Yeah, that's my concern too.

expatinscotland · 11/10/2013 17:08

I think these proposals sound ridiculous and are age-discriminatory.

bigbluebus · 11/10/2013 17:15

Totally unworkable in my opinion. And once again it would affect young people in rural areas more than those in urban areas.

My DS is 17 next month. He already has his provisional licence and has had 2 lessons 'off road' with an instructor. In the last 4 weeks, public transport has let him down to/from college and I have had to bail him out with lifts. We are grateful for the one bus and hour which passes through our village but it only runs 6 days a week and stops at 6pm. For teenagers in rural areas, driving is a necessity.

Yes. plenty of young people wrap their cars around trees, but there are plenty of people who drive past my house who are a menace to other road users, and they are definitely not teenagers.

I agree, that the test needs to be more rigorous and include urban/motorway driving for those that live in rural areas and similarly country road driving for those who live in urban areas, as well as night driving. I also agree that you should have to clock up XX number of hours driving before you are qualified (just like you need to fly a plane.

But once you have passed all that, then you should be qualified to drive like anyone else. As others have said, someone can pass their test and not drive again for years, then are free to get behind the wheel of a car any time they like - now that's dangerous.

JessePinkmansWitch · 11/10/2013 17:18

The proposals are ridiculous! My DSD (21) is a bloody good driver! She's been driving for 2 years. She's just gotten herself a brand new car, yet under these rules wouldn't be able to drive it around mostly. She works shifts and needs her car for when she finishes work at 3am! She also pays a fucking shitload in income tax! If she has to pay the same amount of income tax and other bills like adults over 30 then she should have the same blood rights as other adults regardless of age. Your either legally old enough or your not. They should make their bloody minds up on an age (18 is fine IMO) and stick to it, you can't pick and choose what age for different things and expect young people to pay all the same stuff as older people. Ridiculous!

We should have driver's ed over here in schools like they do in the states. That would educate kids better on the rules of the road.

Lj8893 · 11/10/2013 17:25

patpig

What about a driver under 30 in my DPs situation?

^So my dp who has just passed his test (we don't have a car yet so not relevant) wouldn't be able to drive me to the hospital when I go into labour in the next couple of weeks? He also wouldn't be able to drive me and our newborn home.
He wouldn't be able to drive himself home from work as he finishes at 10pm.
I would have to be the driver everytime we went anywhere, when actually he may well be a better and safer driver than me?!^

AllDirections · 11/10/2013 17:34

DD1 is just 17 and I'll be buying her a set of lessons for her birthday and another set for Christmas BUT we're deferring the lessons till March because we're estimating that it will take 6 months for her to learn to drive and she's getting a car for her 18th birthday. I want her to have her own car to drive immediately that she passes her test. Then she'll have year of driving before going to uni and probably not needing a car. I think that year of driving is important and there shouldn't be a gap as TheWoman said earlier.

I think driving badly is less to do with age and more to do with attitude. I do agree that everyone should be regularly restested but having lessons on a motorway could be a problem. We're 40 miles from the nearest one.

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