WIBU? Asking school to not use Mr and Mrs. R Bonkers

[bonkersLFDT20]

Got a letter from DS1's secondary school.
It was addressed to Mr and Mrs R Bonkers
R is my husband's initial.

I've just written to them suggesting they use more a more modern way to address parents e.g Mr and Mrs Bonkers or Mr R. Bonkers & Mrs M Bonkers.

WIBU?

[Flatiron]

I'd always thought of 'Mr. and Mrs.

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

bonkers I do think you should respond to that email, perhaps not to the level of my snarky example upthread, but they really do need to know, in their obvious desire to be excruciatingly correct, that this is not about grammar.

[PumpkinGuts]

Bless you lady, its really quite sweet that you keep patronising everyone and telling them what feminism is.

[JassyRadlett]

Treacle, I get what you mean. When I get personal letters or cards I make a note of the mode of address the sender has used on the back of the envelope. I figure they're happy with that. I think many people these days are happy with both their first names, though.

[curlew]

"Bless you lady, its really quite sweet that you keep patronising everyone and telling them what feminism is."

Well, obviously someone has to!

[daisychain01]

I am definitely changing my name by deed pole to Mrs R Bonkers.

YANBU to prefer not to be your DHs "chattel" in this enlightened day and age. The wife used to be the husband's possession in the olden days. Not nice. Although I admit I do address Mr and Mrs using the DHs initials. i should know better, I think it is just ease . Must be more aware in future thanks for highlighting.

DSSs school always just say dear parent on all their bumff.

[jamdonut]

Having read all this post now,and all the arguments about right and wrong, I'm beginning to wonder if "Etiquette" has any place in our society these days, something which I notice many here on MN seem to get very wound up about. It is not something I think much about ,generally, except on here

How can anybody be expected to know what 'correct etiquette' is, if everyone has very differing views and nobody wants to be bothered by tradition.

'Correct etiquette' seems to change with the wind...whether it is to do with addressing an envelope, tipping,party bags,weddings etc,etc.

[bonkersLFDT20]

I don't how to reply w/o looking like I'm trying to get one up on them.

Is this OK?

"Thank you for taking the time to respond to my email and for changing my salutation.

While I recognise it is the school's perrogative to address parents and guardians using whichever format you choose, the one you have chosen is based on tradition and etiquette rather than grammar."

[Alisvolatpropiis]

Yanbu - why can't they just address the letters to Mr and Mrs Bonkers?

When I'm writing letters to clients who happen to be married couples it's never even crossed my mind to address it Mr and Mrs mans initial Smith. Never.

However all the posters calling women who take their husbands names "slaves to the patriarchy" are being rude and offensive. Just because you chose not to does not make that choice the only right one. Smacks of "women have the right to make their own choices as long as I agree with them". Which is something often seen on MN.

[Alisvolatpropiis]

bonkers

I wouldn't even bother trying to explain it them. Just thank th for the response and state you anticipate letters in future being addressed as per the salutation you have requested.

[brandnewcock]

This thread has made me decide to get some of the address stickers made up to put on the back of my Christmas card envelopes this year - might clear up the confusion some of our (mostly mine, actually) relatives have about whether I changed my name when I married. DH will be annoyed I don't include his Phd title though - but that's a whole other thread!

[ZingWantsCake]

we always have them address as "Parent/Guardian of ZingBoy"
(DD is only home)

but it would not bother me, we are Mr & Mrs Y Zing!
I really don't see why it is a problem. It's just the custom, you get the same for a wedding invite etc.

I got a letter yesterday addressed to me as Miss X Zing yesterday. I'm not a Miss. I'm a Mrs.
should I be annoyed?

[LadyBigtoes]

Bless you lady, its really quite sweet that you keep patronising everyone and telling them what feminism is.

How sweet of you to patronise me too. We're quits!

I was asked, quite aggressively:
What constitutes a real feminist? Not shaving our bits? Not shaving your pits.? Never wearing lipstick? Boycotting all shops who use sexist advertising? Moving out of society and having a feminist commune.? Noit sleeping withthe enemy and embracing political lesbianism?
Who gets to decide who is feminist enough?

So I answered that explaining feminism as I see it, in a way that deals with the very problems that para expresses so neatly. IMO, the idea tat "feminism means you can't shave your legs" and similar is a myth put about by people who hate and fear women and feminism. It makes it seem like it's about belonging to a weird enclave and having to follow restrictive rules. It's actually very anti-feminist. Think about it logically and you realise men are allowed to care about their appearance/shave/whatever so women should be too.

There's a debate on this thread about feminism so I've been saying what I think. What I think is my opinion, however I am also pointing out that some ideas of feminism seem to fall down logically and go around in circles, and that some of those ideas actually run counter to the idea of gender equality.

What feminism is is of course up for debate. For me equality in all things is the key. Here's the first dictionary definition that comes up on the web.

fem·i·nism
/?fem??niz?m/
Noun
The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

I can't see anything about not shaving, and indeed that wouldn't make sense, as men shave.

Also please note that nowhere have I said that I don't think women should be allowed to change their surname to their husband's when they get married. And I said that I respect friends' rights to be known however they want to be.

What I said is that doing so is not a feminist thing to do and I can't reconcile feminism with doing this thing which runs directly counter to the pursuit of equality.

[curlew]

The fact is that just because a woman makes a choice, that is not therefore automatically a feminist choice.

Women can make anti feminist choices if they want, obviously, but it seems to me that it should be an informed choice. "I know that this thing I am about to do is, in however small a way, perpetuating outdated and misogynist social structures, but I want to do it and I am going to do it anyway" is better than "it's the way it's always been done so I am going to do it too"

[Pendeen]

"While I recognise it is the school's perrogative to address parents and guardians using whichever format you choose, the one you have chosen is based on tradition and etiquette rather than grammar."

Bonkers, have you sent that?

If so I suspect you have just added to the general level of amusement in the school office because, as well as simply being your interpretation of correct grammar, it does appear rather pompous.

[BurberryQ]

um what does grammar have to do with it?
I actually pity teachers....

[bonkersLFDT20]

No, I didn't sent that reply. I simply said ""Thank you for taking the time to respond to my email and for changing my salutation."

I didn't feel at all comfortable sending the other one. I would much prefer to have a conversation like that with someone in person, not with someone I've never met and via email.

[sashh]

StopDoingThat

With kids too. Although he did, sort of, marry his daughter

[PumpkinGuts]

I apologise, I halloween NC in the middle of convo, I was the one who asked you (aggressively apparently) about what makes a feminist because you very clearly stated someone wasnt a feminist on this count.

And I think that's a great sweeping statement to make. I disagree whole heartedly regarding shaving as men are not required to shave at all and dh can happily go to work with out shaving without anyone batting an eye, where as if I am seen to be rocking fur trim on my swim suit I get looks/comments. The more women shave the more women are expected to shave (as in the amount of body hair). I think women separating their ass cheeks to a stranger to have their crack waxed and the idea that is becoming standard if you don't want be seem as "gross" is far more of a concern than my surname. But I won't say that someone who submits to this because of social conventions but still believes in equality is not a feminist.

However my point was and this is to curlew as well, I realise I made one unfemnisit choice as an adult (out of many I am sure) with other concerns.. feminism is there to improve the lives of women.

I am still a feminist. I am also a democrat but might consider voting for a particular candidate one day who is not a democrat because they happen to represents certain ideals I have.

Interestingly my "maiden" name is actually a slave name and has nothing to do with my family. There's a quandary for you. Is a slave name more equal than a husband's name? And does every woman who changes her name need to explain to you why she changed it to prove she is feminist enough?

I'm going to leave this here, because you have a very blinkered view where you believe you own feminism. And I am sorry but you really don't.



I was asked, quite aggressively:
What constitutes a real feminist? Not shaving our bits? Not shaving your pits.? Never wearing lipstick? Boycotting all shops who use sexist advertising? Moving out of society and having a feminist commune.? Noit sleeping withthe enemy and embracing political lesbianism?
Who gets to decide who is feminist enough?

So I answered that explaining feminism as I see it, in a way that deals with the very problems that para expresses so neatly. IMO, the idea tat "feminism means you can't shave your legs" and similar is a myth put about by people who hate and fear women and feminism. It makes it seem like it's about belonging to a weird enclave and having to follow restrictive rules. It's actually very anti-feminist. Think about it logically and you realise men are allowed to care about their appearance/shave/whatever so women should be too.

There's a debate on this thread about feminism so I've been saying what I think. What I think is my opinion, however I am also pointing out that some ideas of feminism seem to fall down logically and go around in circles, and that some of those ideas actually run counter to the idea of gender equality.

What feminism is is of course up for debate. For me equality in all things is the key. Here's the first dictionary definition that comes up on the web.

fem·i·nism
/?fem??niz?m/
Noun
The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

I can't see anything about not shaving, and indeed that wouldn't make sense, as men shave.

Also please note that nowhere have I said that I don't think women should be allowed to change their surname to their husband's when they get married. And I said that I respect friends' rights to be known however they want to be.

What I said is that doing so is not a feminist thing to do and I can't reconcile feminism with doing this thing which runs directly counter to the pursuit of equality.

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

I lived for a while in Philadelphia where many people use Quaker forms of address, which are based on equality. (There is story of a Quaker in the court of Charles II who addressed him simply as Charles Stuart.) As a feminist, I find ithe Quaker practice very appealing, and it solves many problems.

Anyway, the Quaker form would be for the envelope to say Marigold and Reginald Bonkers (or both names written out in full) and the salutation would be "Dear Marigold and Reginald Bonkers" (or both names written out in full).

OP, I provided first names for purposes of illustration. Hope that's ok.

[comingalongnicely]

FFS you've got what you wanted - they've acknowledged your request & are going to change how they address the letters.

Anything else will make you sound like a smartarse with nothing else to do with their time except pestering people that have real work to do.

You'd be better off spending the time looking for a frame to put your first "correctly" addressed envelope in when it arrives....

[SconeRhymesWithGone]

Well, perhaps, as an educational institution, their "real work" could include knowing the difference between grammar and social conventions and not perpetuating sexist practices.

[FlirtyGurty]

This one seems to have passed me by at the grand old age of 40. My life must be so full of shit its never even entered my head to take offence at an envelope (which ends up in the shredder moments after being ripped open)before. Seriously concerned that I dont take 5 minutes out of my life to find the time to think about shit like this.

I assume those offended to not include Alison and Andrew Boggs who also would be addressed as Mr and Mrs A Bloggs - or would it?

Really do think some people look for offence sometimes. Do you all clutch your pearls when these evelopes land on your door mat??

The whole point of etiquette is that when you dont know what to do (IE: unsure of how to address someone) you follow etiquette.

Honestly - some people need to wake up and start thinking about some real shit going on in the real world rather than petty shit like this.

[PumpkinGuts]

and yet flirty, you've just wasted the head space ranting against worrying about something. So you have time to get annoyed that others get annoyed about different things. It's an odd stance to take I'd say.

[FlirtyGurty]

Oooh took all of 30 seconds to type my post and did I rant???