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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think this is unfair and illegal?

115 replies

EverythingIsSoThrowback · 08/10/2013 19:34

This is what I think is unfair:
My DD1 is currently on work experience, she said that all she's been doing is cleaning for the past 3 days. Isn't this unfair? She's not really learning anything.
Also, the 'illegal'part. She's working 5 hours without a break, she's 15, so shouldn't she work 4 hours before a break?
Should I complain?

OP posts:
Ursula8 · 08/10/2013 21:05

The harm pigsmummy is that it is illegal. There are reasons why children are not supposed to work long hours without the prescribed breaks.
By tolerating this kind of stuff people lower the bar and employers get away with more and more shit.

Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 08/10/2013 21:08

Given that list, I'd say that the practice probably shouldn't have taken op's dd on. Doesn't look like there's anything she could really do. If they know that then I guess it's possible they did take her in just to get a "deep clean"

Makes me grateful for the law breaking placements i had.

DSM · 08/10/2013 21:08

I believe, though the op hasn't clarified, that she IS getting a break. The op just expected it to actually come after she had worked 4 hours, but actually she worked 5 hours before break time.

She starts at 8:30 and has her break at 1:30. Not illegal. Nothing wrong at all.

Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 08/10/2013 21:09

Shouldn't it be an hour though not 45 mins and it did state after four hours on the link

Ursula8 · 08/10/2013 21:09

yes it is illegal as she is due 60 minutes break and is only getting 45 mins. The link I posted is from the government website which explains breaks for children.

Ursula8 · 08/10/2013 21:12

No maddy, adult breaks do not apply until they are eighteen.

DSM · 08/10/2013 21:14

It doesn't mean you get your break after 4 hours! This is entirely impractical in a hands-on job like a vet. You get a break for every 4 hours that you work.

And they are actually only entitled to 30 mins for every 4.5 hours. As she is working 8.5 hours days (not 9 hours), she isn't entitled to a full hour.

Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 08/10/2013 21:17

Doesn't excuse the fact though that they took her on knowing that there's pretty much nothing she can do give. The list just posted. And there's every chance she's been taken on just to clean the place up for them. There's no way there should be that many hours of cleaning to do. If they can't go near drugs or sharps then that rules out theatre cleaning surely? What else takes so bloody long to clean.

Original poster
EverythingIsSoThrowback · 08/10/2013 21:19

The link does say 'for more than 4 hours without taking a break of at least 1 hour'
So she is working 4 1/2 hours and then getting a 45min break

OP posts:
Original poster
EverythingIsSoThrowback · 08/10/2013 21:20

DSM, I would agree that if she was a genuine vet, regularly timed breaks wouldn't be reasonable, but she's not.

OP posts:
DSM · 08/10/2013 21:21

Well, it also says that they can't work during school hours, so I assume they use the laws for actual full time workers during WE, rather than the laws based on children who work and also attend school.

DSM · 08/10/2013 21:30

So if she is in the middle of a task, you think she should just get up and go for a break, as 4 hours have passed? And that's a realistic expectation of working?

ThisUsername · 08/10/2013 21:32

She's also very unlikely to be doing a "deep clean" no nurse I know would trust anyone untrained and unaware of infection control do clean a theatre or kennels. I would think window cleaning and making cups of tea would be closer to what a WE does. Like I say WE in a vets isnt really going to be beneficial to anyone unless she engages in conversations and asks questions. So experience is only academic and only if they ask.

I use to like a WE that asked questions, it jogged my memory and vets are very dull people to chat to made me demonstrate bandaging or positioning which I enjoy.

Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 08/10/2013 21:32

Well that would be hard given she's left on her own most the day and "checked on" every hour or so.

Mind you would they notice she had gone ....

WorrySighWorrySigh · 08/10/2013 21:39

If an organisation is getting WE people in then they should have a plan. This isnt about the OP's DD getting hacked off with a Saturday job. This is supposed to be someone showing a young person what working in their organisation is about: this is what vets do, this is what vet nurses do etc etc. Not just this is what the cleaner does.

The OP's DD is 15, she still has plenty of time to learn about exploitative employers. The school doesnt need to arrange that experience for her.

ThePinkOcelot · 08/10/2013 21:41

I'm confused. Its only Tuesday, how has she been there for 3 days?

ThePinkOcelot · 08/10/2013 21:41

I'm confused. Its only Tuesday, how has she been there for 3 days?

ThisUsername · 08/10/2013 21:46

I know checking on her hourly isn't good but she could still try. If she sees a dog come in for a drip she could pop her head round the door and ask to watch, then ask why they use that bag instead of this one. Then ask what's wrong with the dog etc. It doesn't sound a great place I'm just trying to find a way she could make the most of the time she has left. The cleaning isn't her responsibly, if she can find a way to do something more beneficial to her then the cleaning will be done by others and she will have a better WE.

Coffeenowplease · 08/10/2013 22:07

A friend of mine did a WE just like this , only at 17. She was doing a college course to be a vet nurse - the work ex was supposed to last a month.

The lasted about a week before she quit and told the college it was a waste of her time as she was allowed to do nothing,not even observe, just clean.

The college agreed as well IIRC.

DSM · 08/10/2013 22:08

If I was on a months we, I wouldn't quit after a week. Jesus.

Coffeenowplease · 08/10/2013 22:11

What even if they promised you experience of working somewhere and proceeded to treat you as a lackey and expected you to clean up after everyone ?

They were really quite vile to her. This wasn't just WE this was part of her course and none of the things the course required were being done. It was a waste of her time.

In fact I think she did manage to do some of her placement somewhere better but I cant remember how much.

Coffeenowplease · 08/10/2013 22:13

If an organisation is getting WE people in then they should have a plan. This isnt about the getting hacked off with a Saturday job. This is supposed to be someone showing a young person what working in their organisation is about: this is what vets do, this is what vet nurses do etc etc. Not just this is what the cleaner does.

Sorry worry put it far better than I did.

If they were unable to offer her any proper experience they really shouldn't be taking her on at all. She could have gone elsewhere.

DSM · 08/10/2013 22:13

Yeah. I'd at least see through the month, or if it was REALLY bad, I'd do week 2 and if nothing changed, then possibly..

But saying after 5 days that something is a waste of your time as it's not what you expected, I don't know, seems a bit precious to me.

Wheresmycaffeinedrip · 08/10/2013 22:17

I had just that. Ignored and allowed to do bugger all. They were a bunch of bitches tbh. They shut doors so as not to include me. I made tea and coffee I cleaned I asked questions and I tried to help everyone. But no, they couldnt be bothered with me. Instead they took the other girl who hadn't commuted the crime of daring to speak to the wrong staff member and froze me out.

Thankfully the next one was better. The vets spoke to me for starters. And the nurses were lovely.

Ragwort · 08/10/2013 22:18

thecat - yes, I do have a teenage son and I have worked with w/e students so I speak from experience Grin.

There is no way the student's mother should speak to the vet about this, surely, as someone else said, the best thing to do is for the student herself to politely ask when she can observe an operation or whatever it is she wants to do.

It is getting harder and harder for teenagers to find w/e placements and quite honestly, with such unrealistic expectations, combined with the stringent health & safety rules etc etc you can understand why organisations don't want to take on w/e students. I used to volunteer in a pre-school which was willing to take on w/e students - we got visited by someone jobsworth from the school & had to spend hours filling in paperwork before we were allowed to take on a student.