To not feel sorry for DM anymore

[Somanyexcuses]

DM got divorced when I was 12, I had 3 younger siblings and things were tough for us and especially for DM.

She did well, claimed benefits at first then got a job a few years later. She was always very 'strong' and managed to do most things. In the early days friends and neighbours helped her out and gave her lifts etc (she couldn't afford a car) and things were ok.

I eventually left home as did my other siblings leaving just my youngest sister at home, all was ok until 2 years ago when dsis met her partner, DM overnight turned into a vulnerable person, obviously sensing that soon dsis would leave home and didn't want her to.

DM now claims she is unable to change a lightbulb, is scared on her own when dsis is out, acts very 'frail' , says she will not bother eating if dsis isn't home and claims she cannot even take tablets anymore as she might choke and nobody will be there to help her.
She has a driving licence but says she cannot get a car and still relies on lifts from the same friends and neighbours she did in 93 when she got divorced.

Dsis is still at home and saving for a deposit. DM makes her life hell. When dsis is getting ready to go out DM makes her feel so horrible that she either abandons her plans or goes out and has a rubbish time.
Due to very serious health issues dsis doesn't work but DM is still horrible to her, tries to scare her that if she ever moves out something will happen to her and tries to convince her that she should just always live at home and be 'looked after'. She even told her recently that she should never even lock the bathroom door as she will probably drown in the bath and she needs DM to be able to check on her.

I can see this destroying dsis and DM is making herself ill with this bitterness. I've tried to help as much as I can but DM seems hell bent on causing problems and just rants on that nobody cares about her and all she has done for dsis just to be left alone.

I just can't feel sorry for her anymore I think she is putting on this frail, vulnerable act and it is making everybody very uncomfortable and ruining dsis life.

Your Mum sounds like she's very depressed. She's not seeing things clearly and obviously needs support...not minimizing the effect this is having on your sister of course...it must be awful.

But you need, in my opinion to encourage your Mum to see the GP about her state of mind and to do all you can to help her to branch out a bit. Try a hobby...even a regular walk once a week can really help people who are stuck in a rut due to depression. Does she like animals? A dog has helped my brother in his recovery from depression.

YANBU for feeling the way you do but YABU not to do anything constructive.

I have suggested the gp but she won't go. She seems to complain constantly but won't actually take any steps to help herself.

I have tried to help and smooth things over when there have been huge arguments with DM and dsis but I have my own family and dcs and I have to put them first, even dcs don't like going to see her as she is often horrible to them/shouts at them/has no patience.

I've tried but she won't help herself at all, I just can't feel sorry for her anymore. I used to do things like go to shops for her but then she relied on it too much and got angry if I couldn't go when she wanted me too, dh has done huge amounts of DIY for her, replaced doors etc and she never pays for things (eg the actual doors-dh wouldn't charge for his time) and she acts like everybody should be running round after her and sulks if not.

Your mother sounds anxious and frightened of being left to live alone.

I hope she gets some help.

I don't know, she acted in the same way when I left home, got over it and then did the same to each of my siblings in turn but its magnified for dsis and she is the last one there.

We all have anxiety issues which I think come from dcs constant putting us down and telling us we wouldn't cope if she wasn't there to look after us.

I love her but she makes everybody unhappy. Df said that was why he left in the end as she wanted to control him. We were never allowed to see him after he left.

Dms not dcs

What a sad and difficult situation. It must be extremely hard for you and your siblings. Regardless of the reasons it is awful that your mother is treating your DSis the way that she is and you should continue to encourage your DSis to disengage and to leave home ASAP.

I don't blame you at all for feeling dispassionate about your relationship with your mother and you are totally right to put your children first.
You just have to be practical about it. Decide what you can and can't do for your mum and try not to let her get to you.
Her 'helplessness' may be exaggerated but I imagine that there is some substance to it. It's almost like a reversion to being a child. Are there any other steps you can do to make her feel more secure and less dependent
Suggestions ??
Mobile phone

Emergency button
Internet shopping for food
Lists of phone numbers
Daily phone call very quick

I feel so sorry for your DSis, I hope you are able to give her the support she needs. She needs to be confident to say no to your mother.

Good luck

Dmhas a mobile phone and I have suggested numerous times that she should do Internet food shopping. She refuses, and instead gets a lift every week from a friend and then moans how difficult it is doing her food shopping at the weekend and how tired she is. Sometimes she still goes but buys barely anything then blames dsis and says there's no point her eating if she will be alone due to dsis going out.

I try to phone her daily but it's either a 2 hr long phone call and I can't get her off the phone as she talks and talks even if I said my house was on fire she would keep talking or on other days she is horrible and gets angry and puts the phone down if I don't agree with everything she says. It's just a minefield.

I think I've done all I can to help her, tbh the more help she gets the more she demands and its too much.

I feel guilty as do my siblings but we really don't know what to do, either we pander to it and DM gets more demanding or we don't and she wallows in self pity and tells people that not only did her husband leave her but that her children have abandoned her too.

How old is she?

61

My DM does the same - moans about situations but metaphorically puts her fingers in her ears and sings when I suggest alleviating measures. It has taken me years, but I have finally figured out that she doesn't WANT solutions, rather she is looking for sympathy and admiration for martyrdom. Perhaps your DM is the same? Maybe she just wants attention and notice for how she has coped until now, and how brave she is to do her own shopping at, um, 61. Can you try love bombing her and see how that goes?

We have tried so much aready but she seems resistant to outside help unless it involve doing what she wants, when she wants at the drop of a hat. For us, with the dcs and other problems is just too much.

I don't mind a daily phone call, helping with shopping/DIY or if she's ill but she wants us at her beck and call and if we are not she gets cross and can be quite spiteful even blaming dcs (to their faces) for not 'letting' us help her rather than them and they get upset as are only little.

This is my grandmother. She has deliberately been and 'old woman' since she was in her 50's. Won't catch a bus , can't drive martyrs herself. She is now 87 (and justifiably an old woman) but she is still martyring herself

i.e she refuses to have a social services provided washing machine and someone in to to her washing, because she believes her dd should do it. So until the time her dd gives in she is doing her washing by hand. Previous broken wrist and arthritis / previous broken arm and pain in shoulders do not help. However we tell her when she moans that it is of her making she does not have to do it she has chosen this so obviously it what she wants. (We also tell DA to stand firm and not be manipulated).

Your DM will only get worse support your sis she is going to need a lot of help to get out of the situation. Personally I would limit the calls to her 2 hours is way too long set a timer for 30 mins and then say you have to go regardless.

why are you worried about her getting cross?

Have you looked at the stately homes threads as much as your mother did for you and yur siblings I think she is holding that over you.

How many nights a week does your sis spend st home, I would try to wean your mum off your sis, could she try spending one night a week with her partner for a month, them two nights for another month, increasing every month to six weeks until she is only spending a night or two at home?

Frankly (as someone who is nearly as old as your mum), I would let her get on with it.

Don't do any more than you do now (in fact, start doing less). Encourage your sister to move on - is she saving to buy or to rent? If it's to buy, sod that, just leave and rent.

She'll either buck her ideas up when she sees what she's losing, or she can wallow on her own.

If she won't get help, you can't make her.

Dsis is saving to rent (renting is v v expensive where we are).

Dsis spends 1 or 2 nights away but is now considering moving in with bf and his parents as its unbearable for her at home.

I just despair of the situation. DM is so demanding.

You probably can't do much to change your mums behaviour but you can change your reaction to it. I can't believe you would spend 2 hours on the phone with her!!! Why would you do that? [congused]. Decide what you are prepared to do for her and stick to it.

I wouldn't be prepared to be spoken to meanly by someone who I was helping. EVEN if it was my Mum. Walk away! Put the phone down! Be consistent but why put yourself in that situation.

You are at risk of perpetuating her bad behaviour, if you let her get away with it you are 'enabling' it, she is being rewarded by spreading her misery.
The comment that your mum said to your kids was very nasty. What did you do afterwards? I would have left immediately.

Gosh, I make it sound so easy! . Sorry, I know it's not. You have had a lifetime of this but you have to realise that you do have control.

She just kept talking and talking, I couldn't get a word in and she seemed to just be desperate to speak to somebody!

I think she does get genuinely lonely when dsis is not there and I sometimes feel like if I speak to her for that length of time at least dsis is not getting texts/calls that make her upset as she's being treated like a traitor for wanting to move out.

Demanding sounds like an understatement. How is a 61 year old playing the frail and helpless card? Queen Victoria was the same with her youngest apparently and clung to her quite selfishly. DSis can't hate living there so much if she is still there. I assume if you had the room you'd already have offered DSis space at your place so she can leave before she's saved up?

One of the four of you - better yet a team effort- could try talking to your mum about consulting a doctor and perhaps helping her review where she lives and whether she'd be better suited re-housing herself. But I suspect she's wanting assurance she can rely on her DCs to bzz round her, the queen bee.

It is sink or swim time. She isn't hard done by if you are glued to the phone for 120 minutes and send DH to maintain her home. She can't complain or moan if nobody's listening.

Nice people don't have to resort to whining and manipulation to keep those around them dancing attendance.

Dsis was fine there whilst she was very ill and had no partner, once she met bf and has made steps to improve her health/cope with her problems DM has lost the plot.

DM still tries to convince dsis she cannot even manage her own medications and repeat prescriptions and gets angry that dsis does do them herself. Dsis bf is out of work and at his parents and dsis has had trouble finding suitable work but is still looking. DM tells her all the time she is 'not ready' and won't even cope with a part time job.

Dsis is on the housing list but the wait is years so she is saving what she can to rent but its likely she will end up in a box room with her bf at his parents as she can't cope with DM. We don't have the space at our house or I would have let her move in and siblings and our df live miles away.

Sounds controlling and manipulative, not helpless and anxious. 61 is hardly elderly, and she's far from the world's only divorcee.

Your dm has no regard for your boundaries - you need to put some in place for her. Decide how much time and energy you can give her (not at the expense of your dh and dc). Never give more than that. Ignore the inevitable tantrums.

My DM is like this and we get along fine now that she knows she has to behave herself. She does badmouth me to all and sundry, but that can't be helped.

Your mother reminds me a lot of my own mother, but mine is in her 80s so there is some excuse. Yours could have 20 or 30 years ahead of her and you can't continue like this or you will break down with stress.

Your mother is lonely and it's lovely of you to try and ease that by spending so long on the phone to her, even though it's clearly not fun for you. But she is lonely by choice. She is still young and not disabled (guessing you would have said), so she can join clubs, do a part-time course, volunteer with charity groups, etc. She chooses not to do these things that would bring more people into her life, and expects her dc to fill her life instead. This is her choice, but it's your choice whether you fall into line or not. You mention people who give her lifts, could any of these be prevailed upon to encourage her to join local groups. Maybe someone else bringing her along to something would help.

You know you cannot change her behaviour, you can only change how you respond to it. And I really urge you to stand up to her now, while she is still young, because trying to do it when she actually is old and frail is more guilt-ridden.

For her own mental health, she needs to be independent as long as possible, and at 61 she really should be able to take care of herself the same as any adult. Try to remember it is in her best interests to feel strong and capable and the more you do for her, the weaker she will feel, so actually you are doing her a favour when you refuse to enable her demanding behaviour.