Is this a fair audition?

[hanginginthere1]

Any thespians out there able to give me an honest opinion.
DD is in a youth musical theatre group. Last saturday,she auditioned for the roles of Maria and Anita in West Side Story. She had to sing the song Tonight for Maria. She was disappointed since everyone was only permitted to sing a small section of the song. You may know that Maria is a soprano part, but they were not asked to sing any of the top notes, especially the one right at the end. My question is, how can they really decide who can sing the part if they have not listened to any of the auditionees sing the full song.? Also, one girl was given a different part of the Lib tp act out for the role of Anita. Is this fair? Should they not all have to perform the same piece.
I am a little concerned that this process may not be quite fair. To my mind they may well have cast the show before the auditions, simply on what they think the girls can do. They seem to be filling in the gaps.
DD was waiting to show that she could actually hit the high notes, and did not get the opportunity. She normally sings the alto part, and I think that they just presume that she is not able to sing the role, when in reality she can.
I hate these auditions, I wonder whether I should say something about the situation, but I do not want to be seen as the pushy parent. I have always promised myself that i would not go down that road. I really feel for my DD. I have always kept my council, but there are a couple of girls who always seem to get the parts. I am beginning to wonder if there is an agenda.
Any advice gladly accepted.

From my experience in the "professional" world, casting is usually on who is right for the part rather than who can sing the part the best if that makes sense?

So, there may be a girl who is just perfect for the part of Maria, and is what the directors have in mind for thier Maria but she may need some extra help with the vocal side.

And then there will be girls who can sing the part note perfect, but just arnt right for the character.

If I was watching or directing a show I would much rather watch someone who is completely right character wise, than someone who is a note perfect singer. (Obviously I would still rather the actor could hold a tune!)

There could be an agenda, amateur theatre groups can sometimes be very cliquey. But not necessarily, if those girls that always get the parts are just right for the parts than that's the way it is I'm afraid.

Unfortunately the theatre industry is far from "fair".

She was disappointed since everyone was only permitted to sing a small section of the song. You may know that Maria is a soprano part, but they were not asked to sing any of the top notes, especially the one right at the end. My question is, how can they really decide who can sing the part if they have not listened to any of the auditionees sing the full song.?

Assuming all the girls sung the same extract of the song, or at least a similar part with the same note range, this sounds fair enough. If there were lots of girls auditioning, it would have taken a long time to hear them all sing the same song.

Also, one girl was given a different part of the Lib tp act out for the role of Anita. Is this fair? Should they not all have to perform the same piece.

I agree, this part doesn't sound very fair at all.

I have always kept my council, but there are a couple of girls who always seem to get the parts. I am beginning to wonder if there is an agenda.

Unfortunately if this is the case, there isn't very much you can do. Is the rejection really upsetting her? You could always try another group.

I understand, but why would you put somebody into a difficult singing role when they are not able to reach the very high notes. You are not doing that person any favours.

I know how frustrating this is for you and your DD but this sort of thing doesn't change once you are in the profession. In fact it is worse!

Auditions are fundamentally unfair and actors are frequently asked to audition for roles that have already pretty much been cast. Parts don't simply go to the most talented actors. Looks, height, agent, connections, reliability will often trump talent. You have to be hard nosed and tough to succeed.

My advice to your DD would be to do her chorus role as well as she possibly can. Develop a character instead of just thinking of herself as 'chorus'. Always turn up on time and warmed up and be friendly, positive and, (just in case) learn Maria's lines! . None of this will go unnoticed and the next audition she may have her opportunity.

Lj8893 Completely agree.

And apologies hanginginthere, I think it would come across as pushy parent if you were to say anything. Best imo, to accept the outcome, and do the best job of the role given.

Exactly as above, it's not all about the voice there's also acting ability and dance ability to consider when casting and most directors worth their salt would be able to pick out those with strong voices easily it's not all about who can hit the high notes (although if I were your dd I might happen to showcase what I could do outside of an audition situation iykwim )

I know that the world of theatre is not fair.DD has had parts before, and she did very well. She is considered one of the better singers. However, the choice of show often seems to exclude her in favour of the same other 2 girls. There always seems to be 2 parts and 3 girls,and she invariably loses out, mostly because she is 1 year younger. At first we just shrugged our shoulders, but I am now beginning to wonder if shows are deliberately being chosen in order ton accommodate these 2 girls

In fact, when I have done professional or semi professional productions I have never actually auditioned for a particular part, I have auditioned as myself and then either been cast or recalled to audition for particular pieces. Sometimes i have been cast as characters i would never have thought to audition for and they have turned out to be some of the best characters i have ever been! Amateur groups do seem to audition in a very lengthy, pita process.

Completely second what other posters have said about your dd just being an absolute professional in performance and rehearsals, it won't go unnoticed.

Lj8893 As an ex (read "failed" ) professional and now a relatively "successful" amateur, current auditioning protocol seems to follow the same format. As in, just read various parts, not audition for any particular role.

And I agree, most of the time I aim for a particular character, then the director sees something else and get a completely different role. Have an initial internal diva-esque strop, get over myself then knuckle down. And they have been the roles that I've enjoyed more, despite having to work harder to "find" the character.

Musical theatre is not just about being able to hit the high notes. And your definition of "fair" is hardly objective. You don't know what the Director was looking for, and unless you have the expertise, I suggest you sit back, ferry your DD about for rehearsals, support her in being the best she can be in whichever part she's cast, and making sure she gets decent training and doesn't start to see any role as "hers" or casting as unfair.

Lj.She is all the things that you have described. She is very professional, and is always consistent. She stays out of spats etc. She is a very good singer, and has won musical theatre classes in music festivals. She is a good actor, and is working very hard at her weakest area; dance. She would love to go to a theatre school, but realises that this will be very tough. I suppose that experiences like these will eventually help her . It's just that I feel for her.
She is tall 5'7, and I think that this also counts against her.
Thank you for your help.

Tell her to keep at it! I've given it all up now, as I just lost the motivation and desire needed, but will find some semi pro and amateur stuff once I've had my baby and settled etc. its a wonderful thing and she sounds like she has her head screwed on and her feet on the ground.

I was always in your dds situation, one of the better singers but always just missing out. And then suddenly I started to find my niche if that makes sense and I realised that I was a character actor and never destined to be the typical leading lady. It will all click into place for her eventually.

Also, if she is a strong singer alot of directors will like to place her in chorus for that reason. Espessially if she is an alto, as altos are usually limited.

UptheChimney.I suggest you sit back, ferry your DD about for rehearsals, support her in being the best she can be in whichever part she's cast, and making sure she gets decent training and doesn't start to see any role as "hers" or casting as unfair.
That is all I have ever done. My daughter has never viewed any potential roles as hers, I would not encourage that. Believe me, she has been on the receiving end of some nastiness herself.I simply wonder whether this audition was a level playing field?

Lj.
If she is able to go to theatre school and be placed in the chorus of a professional show, then her dream will have come true!

well fingers crossed for her! She sounds like she has the determination and passion needed.

Its funny how chorus in a professional show is so much more appealing to aspiring performers.

Quite often the process isn't fair. It's just how it is I'm afraid.

Tell me about it!
Lj. Sorry to pick your brains. Do you know which are the best places to apply to for Musical theatre?

I wonder (and this may be comforting to your daughter) if the other girls are shorter than her? If they are being cast against boys who haven't yet reached their full height (because boys at 17 or 18 may not have done), being tall may well count against her. In an adult production 5'7" isn't unreasonably tall but it might be tall for a leading lady. I'm basing this on many years of experience in West End musicals. Of the women I've worked with in principal roles, I'd say the vast majority were shorter than average or average.

One girl is her height, the other is smaller.
She does worry that she may be too tall.

She's probably just not what they're looking for. I know it seems harsh, I know it seems unfair - probably because it is harsh and unfair - but most parts are cast on instinct. Also if she's 5' 7 that probably went against her - how tall is Tony?

Anita is a much better part anyway...

Tony is the same height, and a yr younger than my daughter and 2 yrs younger than the other two.
I agree Anita is a better part. Ironically she sings the role brilliantly, but it would appear she is probably too young, and skinny. She does not look like her voice!

I hope you're not voicing your suspicions about it not being a level playing field to your daughter.

But the theatre is never a "level playing field" from the POV of parents of stage children, frankly. The best thing you can teach her is to go with the flow, be the best she can be, and never murmur to her about favouritism.

If she's good enough, talent will out. But I'm afraid parents are very rarely the best judges of their children's talents -- unless you're a theatre professional yourself (and then, if you're anything like my mother, a pro, you'll be even tougher than the director!).

If she's wanting to get decent experience, look at the National Youth theatre. She should be aiming for training at somewhere like LIPA, or maybe Mountview. The Arts ED schools are reasonable preparation for this.

She should be getting the best training you can find & afford in singing, some sort of musical instrument in addition to her voice, and good dance lessons: ballet as a foundation is pretty essential, and then add jazz or tap (maybe) or possibly (grudgingly) street dance. If she's interested in West End/Broadway sort of stuff, she'll need to be a triple threat, although I always find their acting is less impressive than their singing or dancing. If she's weak in dancing, OK at acting, & a good singer, she really needs to work on her dance.

I used to help out at a Youth Theatre and sat on the panel for auditions a couple of times. It's a really hard job, especially where children/teens are concerned because you want to encourage them, but ultimately only limited numbers of people can get principal roles so there is bound to be disappointment. Sounds like your daughter is doing all the right things and agree with the suggestion of the National Youth Theatre.
I also was in youth theatre and local musical theatre companies myself and often was given the character roles when I dreamed of being the leading lady. I was always a goodish singer and reasonable actor, but rubbish dancer. Ultimately, although I was always disappointed, the right people got the parts (generally) and I always enjoyed the show in the end.

West Side is a brilliant show by the way! Hope she enjoys it.

She has singing lessons, and is being trained classically. She is following a BTEC perf arts course, as well as AS in drama, hist and Eng. She is weaker in dance, but is currently doing extra dance lessons including ballet and modern/jazz.
I have never harped on about level playing fields and have always told her not to have any part in nastiness etc. unfortunately, she can see the un level playing field for herself. She will deal with it, and move on.
I am not an expert in these matters, she is probably not quite good enough to make it, but she is certainly no worse than the 2 girls who seem to bag the parts each time.