Preschool fighting?

[giddles]

My son is 3 3/4 and has been attending the local preschool since January.

I have been concerned that he likes to fight too much and have spent the past few months agonizing over his quick to temper and hit his friends behavior. I didn't know why he was so physically aggressive and personally violence of any kind makes me see red. For this reason our relationship has been strained for months over this one issue. I have had a no tolerance attitude to fighting.

This morning i missed my bus home after dropping him at preschool so, i went back to watch him. I asked to speak to a teacher and get the lowdown on him, socially, physically, intellectually etc i wanted to know whether he tried to fight physically with the other children like he does at home and if so how they deal with it because my anger wasn't working and was at a loss at what too do.

What i was told has shocked me to the core.

Apparently boys will be boys and they like a bit of rough and tumble so when that happens the teachers just put down soft mats and 'let them get on with it' keeping the girls/ none fighting boys out of the way.

WHAT? the logic seemed ok until i got home and engaged brain.

THE Logic:
They are going to do it anyway so we make it(physically) safe? (how can this be safe?)
If we repress this urge they will find other more destructive outlets! (what is more destructive than physical combat?)
They need to learn their boundaries so they don't go too far unsupervised.

There was more but i cant remember it.

I am trying to consolidate my thoughts and anger around this. so forgive me if i ramble.

1. Society does not condone fighting. We imprison people for GBH.
2. Preschool is the prep for big school which does not condone fighting? Surely this will cause a child trouble and confusion on attending big school.
3. My son is large, he will learn as it appears he has, that he will win at fighting... surely this is a good education in the making of a bully?
4. what about the weaker smaller boys, what will they learn about their position?
5. My attitude of non violence versus the pre-school's 'permission' which is what it amounts too, has caused a rift in our relationship and undoubted confusion for my son. It will take much work and understanding to undo this influence.
6. My son knows how to punch and fight like men. I did not teach him this and these are learned skills, who taught him... is this even more sinister than a bunch of kids being aloud to play fight? (i maybe going too far, it might also be learned from Kung fu Panda!)

What more can i say... am i over reacting?, can you add your views and opinions on this matter? I am heavily pregnant and fear i might be over the top? if my disgust is not misplaced what should i do about it other than take him out of pre-school? thanks in advance.

hi, I work in a pre school and we definitely do not condone fighting.
yes in some ways 'kids will be kids' and it is good to help them find a safe outlet but I don't think just letting tem 'get on with it' is best. yes a lot of kids love play fighting and I don't think that is necessarily bad as long as there is no physical contact and it is being 'watched' eg superhero's 'fighting' baddies.
again yes it can be true that kids will find more destructive ways if they feel 'repressed' but imoh it is up to the preschool to ensure that they are putting things in place so that all the children can express themselves. (eg lots of physical play like climbing etc)
I would make an appointment to speak to them again and express that you are not happy and explain all your reasons why and see what comes of that.

Thanks for replying Flojo. You don't seem that shocked... not approving but, not horrified like me...i will read as a vote that i'm over reacting which i sure hope i am!

Young children need and benefit from rough and tumble play. If this is managed properly by a good nursery, it is extremely good for a child's development. There is plenty of research, why don't you ask your nursery what they have based their decisions on?

This came up on a quick google- I am not saying it is definitely a good piece of research, but it is one of many along similar lines. I don't have time to critically evaluate lots for you and offer the best- but I am aware that generally a lot of places do now subscribe to this kind of idea.

www.fcs.uga.edu/cfd/cdl/gfx/RoughandTumbleStudy.pdf

I would run a mile from any nursery that did this.

To clarify. Any nursery that allowed fighting and kept girls out of the way, sounds awful.

All children (boys and girls) should be encouraged to tear around, jump, run and climb. But turning a blind eye to fighting, as it's 'what boys do' is pretty poor supervision IMO.

well it depends what they mean by fighting. I would say wrestling is ok, but boxing no way!I thinkit's something that in theory would be a goodidea, but in pravtice would need somuch policing and would inevitably end in tears as one childplayed rougher than the other intended

This pisses me off for another reason. DD (2) is tough, fearless and rough. I have had to manage her behaviour since she could stand. I have done that. I have also as Meglet says gone out every day to run, climb, swim, etc. Now it seems that because she is a girl, according to your preschool, she is 'different' and needs to be protected. What nonsense. If I let her fight, she could take any boy in her preschool .

The message to the fighting boys, the non-fighting boys and the girls is dreadful.

I totally agree that girls should not be excluded on the basis of being girls. However, it is a biological fact that boys have a surge in testosterone levels around the age of 4 which means they may be more interested in engaging in that kind of play more often than most girls. Not all of them and not all of the time, of course!

I'm kind of torn.

I have boys aged 3 and 5. They 'fight' frequently. It takes the form of non-contact 'I'm the super hero and you're the baddy' sometimes.

Sometimes they wrestle. Very roughly if given the chance. Sometimes one of them will hold the other down and pummel them, whilst the other is in fits if giggles. The other day I walked in on a just-beginning kicking competition where they were planning together to start kicking each other in the bum by turn to see who would cry first

Largely, I do leave them to it. I intervene when necessary (such as with the planned kicking) but for the most part I let them play. Because it IS play. Which they both consent to. They are testing their own and each other boundaries and are not vicious with it.

On the other hand it seems like this school is creating a 'fighting area' for the 'strong' kids. Which seems odd. Maybe it was just badly explained though and not as bad as it sounded?

Thanks for the replies. I think that the situation was probably poorly described and suspect strongly that the preschool would police this practice very carefully. Regarding the girls being kept away, i think also that this was an attempt to convey that it is not a 'compulsory' activity and that anyone not willing was protected but a girl who wanted to be a part would be aloud to partake iyswim?

My real concerns are more ideological and about what we are teaching about dealing with aggressive emotions, problem solving ect.
I am worried for the weaker children, for their self confidence and physical safety.

At the meeting i pointed out that play fighting always leads to tears it might start of friendly but inevitably when a child gets hurt anger sets in and then the play turns to aggression leading to a real fight where the injured party seeks to cause injury back. The response was that 'it always leads to tears here too'. So my question is what is the lesson what is the point?

Another thing that concerns me is this notion of hierarchical sorting. In the pros of rough and tumble (R&T) play Study posted by Magnum (Many thanks two points refer to this concept. Alien ideas to me but it seems that it is widely accepted that children need to work out their place in the 'pecking' order and r&t play aids this? Are we still this primitive, R&T Play can establish a pecking order sure, but it will be based on physical prowess... an animal survival of the fittest model.

i am doing my best to see this from all sides, my (parental) background is very left wing socialist pacifist i want to learn new ways and understand the world from less extreme positions. I want to be the best mother i can for my boy, i know nothing of boys and don't want to rashly take him out of the pre school he loves and that is off-stead rated excellent all because i am incapable of getting other concepts and actually don't understand people iyswim?

I dont like the idea that the preschool puts down mats for it.It makes me feel that its like a planned activity.I have a ds in nursery and he does little kicks and hits which i know hes learnt from nursery as he hasnt got anyone else that he would have learnt it from but if i thought nursery were treating fighting as an ok thing and putting mats down to do it id be upset tbh.I can appreciate that some kids will like to play action hero or power ranges eyc but i think theres a difference between that and indicating to young ones that heres the fighting mats.