To think that a blanket ban on benefits for under 25s

[pointythings]

Is not only blatantly unfair but also unworkable?

Under a future Tory government, you can leave school at 18, work, lose your job at 23 and be forced straight onto workfare, because you are not eligible for benefits - never mind that you've worked and paid in!

And isn't it blatant age discrimination? Every time I think the Conservatices can't sink any lower, they do...

My parents had both died by the time my younger was just 21. She has been really lucky to get a full time, permanent job after uni. If she had not, under these plans she would not have been eligible for any help.
I would have had to step in and help her. This would have had a huge impact on our family. My husband and I have a young family and child care costs are horrendous. It does bare thinking about, actually. It would have put a huge strain on all the family.

TrueStory it's true that starting work early instills good habits. But in this country we say that benefits are awarded on the basis of need and removing benefits from all under-25s regardless of need flies in the face of that basic tenet.

We could change the entire premise of our welfare system...

... or we could acknowledge that there aren't the jobs to get so it's inhuman to impose sanctions on those who haven't got one.

I find them abhorrent because they don't even try to see a different perspective, but they are not evil.

I saw a monopoly experiment once. Two people play but one starts off with twice as much money, they roll two dice as opposed to one and they collect double the amount every time they pass go. The game is obviously rigged, both players know it but the player with privilege starts to act like an arse. They make digs at the losing player, eat more of the snacks and pull the communal bowl of nuts to their side of the table. They begin to believe that they deserve to win and they deserve all the things that are making them win. They lose all empathy for the loser, believing that they are losing because they just aren't good enough. Scary thing is that pretty much everyone acts the same way when they are assigned the role of winner.

So I got a night job in the pub down the road. With the money I have bought a bouncy castle which I am now hiring out via a fb page and local marketing. I have 10 bookings so far.

So how did you pay your public liability insurance? Who is looking after your children while you work (in the real world evening childcare costs as much as day time)?

Oh and if you have not paid out for insurance, one broken bone could bankrupt you, and if your company isn't Ltd (if it cost nothing I doubt it is) that's your house gone. But then it will be easy for you to get another job, a house and .............. oh hang on bankrupts don't get mortgages do they? And social housing? Well you can go on the list.

truestory
Please read the Joseph Rowntree link. It demonstrates, among many of their other papers, that this is rarely the case. Less than 1%.

truestory has bought into the bile spread by the government and the gutter press. They do their work so well.

This is about the good of the many. You can choose. Would you rather

• That a very small handful of people get things they are not entitled to so that the majority who are in genuine need have a safety net, or

• That no-one at all must get anything they should not get, no matter that substantial numbers of people in real need will suffer as a consequence

I know which I would choose.

To be honest I think they'd be bloody brave to actually set this in motion such a short time after the tuition fees fuss.
Are they trying to lose younger voters or what?

brokensunglasses how on earth will it discourage people having children young?
Unless you're meaning it will force young women to have abortions or be unable to feed their child until they hit the 'acceptable' age of 25.

Your DC may have been planned at 19, but many young parents don't result from planned pregnancies

Itis an appalling and divisive policy born out of government idleness not the idleness of young people. A blanket ban is so much easier to administer than considering each case on merit regardless of age. The young single parent, the unemployed graduate, the poor elderly person are equally entitlrd to support and state help.

I've just had a huge fight with my dad about this.

he is a mail bullshit swallowing Tory voter who was on about all theunder25s who doss about and are lazy and illeterate and happy to live on estates like mine (council/ about 60/40 council/bought)

when I actually asked him how many people he actually knew who had never worked or signed on at 18 he couldnt even name one!

truth is a lot if not all who can were working in low paid jobs but working hard

bus drivers, window cleaners, a lot of public sector people too. my dh's family come from a rough estate but all still work. carers, care homes with varying shifts, zero hours contracts etc

its tough out there! it upsets me so much that an entire generation of people are lumped together as being not hardworking when it is totally Murdoch BS

I think this is unfair especially to those under 25 who have children because ultimately they will be the ones who suffer. I think if there were more support with the local councils and groups in regards to childcare and things there would be more people working to start with. I am just about to go back to work when I already have three children (yes I admit my choice) but I don't have a clue where to start with childcare. What is the point of working only to meet the price of childcare alone without other bills. Luckily I have a partner to work with but not everyone is as lucky! They need to address the problems of WHY people aren't working before they decide to completely cut things out. The whole thing they boast about is supporting the working people which I can't see or find any of that support anywhere!

I live in the SW and my teenage DC seem to find it relatively easy to pick up seasonal, casual hourly work working in catering. It gives them a bit of an income and a lot of exposure to people (we live in the countryside and two of them are naturally very shy so I think it's invaluable). They are all in education and these jobs are very much part-time. They themselves realise that they do not make enough to live on. The point is that they still have a roof over their heads, food to eat and warmth because we pay for most of it. They are extremely fortunate that we are still just about able to support them as they study.

Many many families can not. In other families the children have to go out to work to contribute to family expenses. Some families I know have been damn near broken by their teenagers' inability to find a job (for whatever reason). Many families cannot afford to support a selection of non-working near-adults. And in the SW (arethere frankly you are talking horseshit about the job sitch in the SW) there are very very few jobs that pay a living wage to unqualified teenagers, enough to pay rent, food and other expenses, even in a shared flat, even living on ramen noodles. Many of my friend's teens are paid £4 something an hour. That is pin money, not a wage.

Ten bookings of a bouncy castle is £1000 income, maximum (before expenses, tax and NI . That should keep a family for oo, a fortnight? Ten days maybe.

This is beyond the pale.

If this government gets voted back in, we are seriously considering selling up and leaving the country.
We are incredibly lucky to be in a position where this would be difficult,but possible,for us.

My work recently advertised a 12 hr position,we had 200 initial applicants, 20 made it to interview and only 1 will get the job.
The applicants ranged in age from 16-52 and experience from absolutley nothing (no previous work,no qualifications) to degrees and glowing references.

Where are the jobs for all these people?
Which company's are going to employ and pay for staff they dont need?

Especially when they can now get them for free on workfare?!

I actually dont think this will even deter the 'lifetime claimants' anyway. They will just find new and inventive ways to get round it. Benefit fraud was a way of life where i grew up. Infact you were considered a mug if you werent abusing the system as much as you could.
This will just hurt those who are genuinely in need.

There needs to be a ban on zero hours contracts and an complete end to this graduated min wage bollocks on top of so many other things for this policy to be anything other than complete age discrimination. FWIW, I think the graduated min wage is definitely age discriminatory, backwards, stupid and should be challenged in European court.

I can see what they're trying to do - stop the cycle of lifetime benefit claimants, but the Tories either don't know, or more likely don't care that not everyone has the safety net of a stable family home. This could make the vulnerable far more vulnerable. Wasn't the welfare state set up to protect our most vulnerable?

I seriously hope the Tories don't get in next time - sadly I'm from a family of Tory voters and they will see this as A Very Good Thing, even though there are personal examples in our family of people who would have been in terrible trouble without the benefits safety net there.

It's a ludicrous policy, and one which, were it to be implemented, would cost the nation more than it might save.

However, party conferences are all about reassuring members/supporters that they will win the next election. And to do that they need to appeal to their core vote. In the Conservatives' case, this is the 55s and over. So it's hardly surprising that they should attack the young.

Fact is, the Conservatives don't need young people to survive politically.

If young people actually voted, then the political parties would have to respond to their concerns. If you are between the ages of 21 (assuming you would have just been old enough to vote in the last election) and 35 and have never voted, then this is the consequence of your apathy.

But their parents vote....

It would be massively disruptive, persoanally, if either of my student children graduated, couldnt find a job, and landed back on my doorstep!

This is another in a long line of examples of the Tories spouting something that will appease the "Something should be done" faithful, without actually thinking through what behaviour would change as a result. It's meteing out a punishment to all, without caring about the knock-on impact.

It's a stupid idea thought up by a party who clearly blames everything on jobseekers, whether they are genuinely looking for work or not.

It will only shoot the parents in the foot & the pm must remember these parents can vote!

Why should parents be accountable for their children financially when they are no longer children. A child becomes an adult at 18.

It won't help the workshy either as they will know they can run to mummy & daddy for help instead of getting of their arse into work or atleast applying for benefits in their own right. He is making it EASIER for those types.

And those that genuinely want to work but cannot due to lack of jobs or skills will feel ridiculed at the prospect of asking their parents for financial help.

David Cameron needs to spit his silver spoon out and realise the majority on benefits are stuck on them due to the job crisis.

expat, I agree- a 16 yo doing the same job as a 21 yo should be paid the same wage. However, I guess what it does achieve is to build in a positive incentive for teenagers to stay in education rather than drop out, so it may have some advantages. Young people entering lower 6th this year are the first generation to have to stay in education or training until they're 18- I would like to know the ramifications (beyond removing these YP from the unemployment stats).

What I'd love to see is the people who think this is a good idea actually provide some facts and figures to back up their claims about there being a massive problem with under 25's on benefits.

Specifically what would be good would be

• How many people claim JSA?
• Of that number, how many are under 25?
• And out of those, how many have never worked?

Alternatively these stats would also be good

• How many people claim HB?
• Of those how many are under 25?
• Of those how many have children?

"David Cameron needs to spit his silver spoon out and realise the majority on benefits are stuck on them due to the job crisis."

I reckon David Cameron needs to shit his silver spoon out...

Up the Duff

We are far too tolerant in this country, maybe we should take to the streets in peaceful protest like we did when the poll tax was introduced in the 80's. Only if enough people protest will this Government backtrack. My Ds is only 6 but I dread what the future hold for him. We live in a former mining area in S Yorks whre good jobs, any jobs are hard to come by

Elfhame yeh shitting it out would be better. He may wake up then, just a shame he probably has more than one to shit out!