"Maybe one day I'll set up to Identical threads with gender roles swapped"

[TheFabulousIdiot]

..." under different usernames and check the responses"

Am I being unreasonable to think that this is actually happening right now on mumsnet?

The quote above is from a goady thread in relationships a few weeks ago about men and women getting different advice and I can't help thinking that there have been a few threads started lately to test this very theory?

I wondered about the husband not wanting kids one...

Ha - I have been tempted so very many times....

I get regularly flamed because my life is gender swapped and people assume I must be a bloke because of it...or that my DH is in fact a DW etc.

Peoples attitudes change immediately they realise....

MN is massively massively sexist.

There are definitely things I read on here which are sexist in favour of women, I think however the example of partners not wanting children isn't a great example of offering different advice to different genders.

One area of life where people are not and can not be equal is pregnancy and childbirth therefore it would be impossible to offer equal advice.

the problem is, as was pointed out in the thread the quote comes from, each situation is different and sometimes what is said in the OP is altered by what the poster subsequently reveals.

The children one (and the second one from a female OP) is just one example of my suspicions.

Thing is, if someone is starting fake threads how does it help anyone who is genuinely seeking advice?

I only have this thought about once a week.

There was one yesterday with a dad asking for advice on child support payments, few hours later thebwx pops up.

Very predictable.

I guess you just have to report them, even if it's just a hunch. HQ will do their voodoo troll detector shit and hopefully catch them out. This is why trolls aren't always harmless. People invest a lot emotionally in helping people out who aren't genuine.

I find it really interesting actually. It really highlights the fact that no-one gives advice based solely on the situation i.e. one partner doesn't want a baby. The name calling and heckling of the male that doesn't want one is totally at odds to the attitude towards the female that doesn't.

There's a lot more bile directed at the male. Personally if I was a male in that situation I'd NC and post pretending to be a woman so I'd get more advice I could actually use & less abuse.

have people been name-calling in that thread?

Hi all,

Thanks for the reports about this thread.

You can start threads that are inspired by a little-touched-on specific issue in another thread but not threads about threads purely to pull apart the original thread or threads dragging issues over the coals again and again.

If you suspect that someone has been a wee bit disingenuous and started two threads from different POVs about the same thing, then do report and we will take a look, it's not really on.

Hope that helps to clarify.

I have no idea if the threads are real or not but I have read them both. Some of the comments made (by usually well respected posters in relationships) are pretty nasty towards the man but the way people speak to the woman is very different.

I don't think people are necessarily sexist on MN on purpose I think it is the typical female thing of sticking together and so on but it would be better if people actually stopped and thought about how hard it is to post about personal relationship stuff, however badly you may word it.

It is not always towards men though, I posted something personal (with a nc) and I hadn't worded it that well and had some pretty nasty comments, I was pretty fragile and genuinely wanted some advice.

I can understand why these threads may have been started to prove a point but it is really unfair on the people taking the time to give advice, I have been in that situation before and stuck up for an OP then felt really hacked off when it was deleted as she had made it up!

Oooh - was the thread reported because people thought I was wrong to start it or because of the issue I was discussing?

Are you going to delete it MNHQ?

I will continue to report the threads i think are suspicious. i always worry that i am annoying MNHQ by being so uber-suspicious about them.

I have name changed BTW, am a regular but recently changed my name

Is it always so wrong if they do?

I'm a male, I've often been tempted to gender swap and write a thread about my relationship issues (haven't yet though). It's not so I can fool you all, then cackle evilly as I make the big reveal and go "ha-ha! It was the [i]woman[/i] who was wrong after all! Doesn't it blow your mind!" and run off gloating to my MRA chums about my victory. It's not that at all.

It's because I'd just like a thread where I know I'm guaranteed the support and indulgence for moments of weakness that's always available to women here.

Cos I like the site, and I think a load of the threads are very wise and interesting, but men's mistakes and missteps in relationships are always read of being indicative of their absolute villianry, whereas women's are infinitely forgivable, seen as momentary lapses and undoubtedly the product of pressure, tiredness or oppressions upon them.

Mumsnet is a very lonely place to be a man. I lurk cos I like the standard of debate, but I've known from the off I can never be a fully particpatory member of the site. The reason for this is summarised in the fact that there's no female equivalent for LTB, in the male-started threads I've seen I've never once seen "Leave the Bitch" being used, and I doubt it would be tolerated.

This isn't a whinge, you've every right to make this a female-centric site if you please, and like I've said, I just want to lurk, but try and have a bit of understanding and compassion for male users who'd like to be treated as equals and are tempted to gender-swap. It's not always in bad faith. Either that, or post simply that males aren't welcome. Don't try and pretend there aren't massive double standards on display at times.

but ayahushca, you have the whole of the rest of westernized society where your voice is given agency, whereas places that are safe for women are few and far between.

perhaps that's why mumsnet is so successful - i feel more secure posting here than anywhere else.

fwiw - i don't see why posters couldn't put the situation up, then ask for people to try and see it from the other pov, while they demonstrate theirs. no subterfuge needed, and if the op states that they are trying to look at a situation from another pov they are likely to get a more meaningful response.

The only times I've seen gender-swapped threads, or discussion of them ("this would get very different replies if a man had written it!"), have been to make some nebulous point about how men get a raw deal here. Well, frankly, I think that's tough: the world IS a harsh place, overwhelmingly so for women, and I have absolutely no problem with there being at least one place on the internet mostly dedicated to women helping other women.

As ayahushka has just said, it's entirely appropriate that this is a female-centric site: other places certainly aren't.

That's fine kickassangel- I'm a feminist, I've no problem with the right and need for female-only spaces.

But I believe the issue is binary, I don't believe in the right of a place to accept men (or women) in if it is then not prepared to treat them as entirely equal people. If men anre acceptable for admittance, they have to be equal in every way,

Look, I don't think this site is full of man-hating sexists or anything (I wouldn't be here otherwise) I like it a lot and I always enjoy being on it, 90% of the threads are great reads. But in the same way women feel instinctively protective towards others in the sisterhood, I hate the way so many men are casually dismissed in LTB comments the moment they do anything wrong, there's so little attempt to see it from their point of view, or consider mitigating circumstance.

A good example would be the presumption that any man who is moody or curt towards his girlfriend/wife (because he's in a bad mood and being a bit of a plonker) may reasonably be inferred to be about to turn violent or something (which, in my subjective opinion, often happens here) whereas women are granted their moods and foibles.

But hey, my instinctive sympathy being towards the bloke is every bit as problematic as vice-versa, and its simply the result of growing up in one gender so being more likely to side with it automatically. I'm not calling mumsnet sexist or saying it's evil or anything, I'm just saying it's a really good forum, the support offered up to women in problem relationships is fantastic, and every now and then we blokes might get a bit jealous and be tempted to try gender-swapping because male-centric forums with this standard of emotional support are hard to come by. And we're idiots for that, and we try to resist the urge to do so because we know it's not wanted, but there's nothing nefarious at play, honest. And I'll bow out now cos I'm really not expressing this at all well.

"Is it always so wrong if they do?" you ask, ayahushca.

I personally have no problem with men starting threads and I am sure many people here take the threads that are started at face value and give the advice that they would give anyone regardless of gender.

but this thread was about those people who have said that they would like to start threads to test the theory that women get treated differently to men on Mumsnet when asking for advice. That is, those who deliberately make up a problem where there is none just so they can say 'see I told you so'.

If you have a genuine issue that you want to post about I am sure the majority of mumsnetters would respond to what they read rather than to your gender.

so in answer to your question - yes I do believe it is wrong for people to deliberately deceive by posting two threads from a male and female perspective in an attempt to trick posters and then do a big reveal.

If you see anything you think breaks MN rules, report. MN like reports.

Personally, men and women should be getting the same true and right advice, no matter whether they are a male or a female posting. Why should men get a raw deal on mumsnet? By parents for parents. Supportive of parents.

"but ayahushca, you have the whole of the rest of westernized society where your voice is given agency, whereas places that are safe for women are few and far between."

Pray tell, where in westernized society can men talk about their relationships but women cannot?!

Some women on MN do feminism a great disservice by treating men as less humans purely for being born a man whilst deriding society for doing the exact same thing to women.

Was just thinking how nice it was that this thread hadn't been colonised by MRA...

TheFabulousIdiot
"but this thread was about those people who have said that they would like to start threads to test the theory that women get treated differently to men on Mumsnet when asking for advice. That is, those who deliberately make up a problem where there is none just so they can say 'see I told you so'."

This is where we disagree. I do very much think men get treated differently to women on mumsnet, I don't think it's a result of overt sexism, I don't think many of the posters who do it do it intentionally, but I think it does happen.

I don't think it's reasonable for men to gender-swap with the intent of trying to show it up and cause a stir, because I think that the fact human nature means that one gender sides with their own is sad, but inevitable, and getting worked up about it happening here does no good, and can only cause discord.

But I do think it happens.

And kickassangel, while I agree most of western discourse is male-dominated, that's little help to me, because in my experience the more male dominated a space is the less it has to offer me. That's why acceptance into female-dominated arenas is important to me.

In all seriousness the briefest perusal of AIBU in particular surely puts paid to the notion that women get unqualified support here? If a woman talks shite or rings alarm bells she is ripped to shreds.