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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

possible teachers strike and zero tolerance on holidays

99 replies

plum100 · 01/10/2013 12:48

Hi Everyone,

I don't usually post on this board but this issue is starting to irk me quite a bit.

We have just been told the school will not authorise any term time holidays now and that we will be fined if we take our children out.

Now we have a letter warning us of a possible strike maybe on two occasions and its really annoyed me.

AIBU to be annoyed of the attitude that its not OK for me to take my child out of school and provide them with a restful learning experience ,but it's ok for them to close the school when they decide that they are being made to work till they are 68 and haven't had a pay rise for 2 years and they don't like it.

Its a bit 'one rule for one and another for others ' isn't it? If my childs education is so important that they have to fine me so I don't take them out - then how can they just shut!

Maybe I should fine them for forced unauthorised absence of my child! so bloody annoyed!!!!

OP posts:
duchessandscruffy · 01/10/2013 13:21

It's not the school that are doing the fining, it's the government policy. If you don't like what the government you could always do something to get your voice heard...... Oh wait!

duchessandscruffy · 01/10/2013 13:22

What the government is doing

Must proof read!

noblegiraffe · 01/10/2013 13:26

You're pissed off at Gove, teachers are pissed off at Gove.

Teachers are fined for striking btw, they lose a day's pay.

secretscwirrels · 01/10/2013 13:28

OP all the teachers are at home on MN today Wink.
You have it wrong though. Teachers do not decide on term time holidays.

chicaguapa · 01/10/2013 13:35

YANBU.

I would definitely ask the government why they think that term time holiday is so detrimental to a DC's eductation but one day off due to a strike they did nothing to avoid is ok.

I'd love to hear how they justify their double standards. hypocritcal bastards

SirChenjin · 01/10/2013 13:39

Let's not blame Gove completely. We have an SNP Govt (God help us...) who have pushed through Curriculum for Excellence up here with limited resources whilst ignoring teachers' concerns. I remember Labour tinkering with education too (although not quite as much as they would have liked, given the amount of funding they receive from the political fund).

frogwatcher42 · 01/10/2013 13:42

I haven't seen anything in the news etc re the strike. Most of our schools are open I think anyway.

I do feel sorry for teachers having their pensions etc hit. But it has happened in every area of public sector - as have different and reduced pay tiers etc. Its a pita but we appear to all have to grin and bear it.

The problem that I see is that any area of public sector that makes too much of a fuss about changes is then slowly changed so that far more people can do the job so that those happy to take the reduced terms end up filling posts. For example if teachers make too much of a fuss, then some form of specialist teaching using unqualified staff will be brought in so that fewer teachers will be needed. That's certainly what has happened in our area of work - following hits on pay and conditions and strikes.

It seems really unfair that public sector jobs get hit time and time again. But I think teachers would have been safer protesting with other unions from other areas of the public sector rather than making a target of themselves. At a time of hardship, parents are likely to be less tolerant or supportive as they themselves are making do with reduced terms and conditions, and do not need the disruption to their already difficult life.

Vickibee · 01/10/2013 13:47

if the teacher's grievance is Gov't policy, they are merely punishing parents by striking today. IMO the Gov't don't care about the strike and the teachers won't win their demands anyway by striking.

Public sector pensions and benefits are very generous, I contribute towards this and yet cannot provide for my own pension. Perhaps they should feel lucky?

Davsmum · 01/10/2013 13:49

Mimitwo - Thanks - I didn't know that :)

LEMisdisappointed · 01/10/2013 13:51

This is a non argument - the teachers will be on strike, the children wont miss anything because it will be taught to them on their return. I should imagine that it wont be an easy step for the teachers actually. If you take your child out of school they miss what was taught that day - now whether that is a big deal is for you to decide, a lot of factors affect it. I took my DD out of school for a week in year two but wouldn't probaby do it now she is older.

frogwatcher42 · 01/10/2013 13:51

The average female public sector pension on retirement is about £3-4k a year Vickibee. I don't think they are as generous as people think!! They used to be many years ago, but not so much now in most of the public sector. There are still pockets that are good (not sure what but think NHS and Police is still quite good), but local government is pretty bad.

You have to remember that most public sector workers could earn more working privately for their skill base. The pension is part of the package when you take a job - I think that is why it hurts so much if it is changed. If the lack of perks, lowering wages, poorer pensions, longer working hours, less holidays were all part of the package around when most public sector workers chose their careers, they may well have chosen differently!

SirChenjin · 01/10/2013 14:03

Frgowatcher - I think it's a bit more than that, isn't it? BBC website comparison between public and private sector pensions here

frogwatcher42 · 01/10/2013 14:08

SirChenjin - maybe I am quoting the local government average female worker amount. Not including other areas of public sector.

I will find out and report back - I know that is a figure for the average womens pension of some sort in public sector as I carried a banner to that effect a couple of years ago!!!!!

Comparisons between public and private pensions are usually poor as most poorly paid local government/public sector jobs are contracted out. And so it a skewed comparison. The only fair way to compare is to compare like with like for each job.

frogwatcher42 · 01/10/2013 14:16

SirChenjin I found this (from a 2012 house of commons document on google!) which backs up that in general local government pensions are low. However, this may reflect short contracts, low wages etc rather than the actual terms and conditions of the actual pension:

'The average (mean) annual LGPS pension in payment is £4,200. For women the average is £2,800.'

DadOnIce · 01/10/2013 14:18

For those who don't agree with the strikes, how should teachers make plain their opposition to Government education policy without "inconveniencing" anyone? And why would this be more effective?

poshfrock · 01/10/2013 14:30

Not all public sector workers have the right to strike though so they can't make themselves heard. Police pay and pensions have been hit just as badly as teachers' if not worse but the police have no right to strike. What do you suggest they do?

At least teachers have a voice. Parents are all over the internet on Mumsnet, FB, Twitter etc discussing the teachers' strike. That fact in itself raises the profile of the issue, more people are talking about it and finding out for themselves what the concerns are. How many times on Mumsnet in the last 24 hours has someone asked, " But why are they striking?" and been given an answer or a link. That person has learned something that they may never have known if not for the strike. It all helps the teachers' cause.

littlemisswise · 01/10/2013 14:40

They are not striking about the education policy though DadonIce.

SirChenjin · 01/10/2013 14:44

Frogwatcher42 - I don't know, an article in The Guardian here links to a Channel Four report which which highlights that the typical private sector worker retires on a pension of £3,700 a year, compared to £7,000 in the public sector. Maybe a case of lies, damned lies and statistics?!

greensmoothiegoddess · 01/10/2013 15:03

Op - yes YOU plummy - just interested as to whether you now have more understanding of the issue you raise? Have posters clarified the unauthorised absence situation for you namely that it comes from the government and NOT schools themselves?

Bea · 01/10/2013 15:06

Biscuit Biscuit Biscuit

greensmoothiegoddess · 01/10/2013 15:07

Frogwatcher -you say that its (sic - sorry) a pita but we appear to all have to grin and bear it.

This seems to be what Gove is relying on and, as an educationalist, I disagree strongly with 'grinning and bearing it'. Power to the people and all that. It's up to each profession to make their voice heard.

Lilacroses · 01/10/2013 15:09

Sorry but this is silly. Firstly, teachers lose a day's pay if they strike so they are, in that sense, being fined but mostly the term time holidays rule isn't initiated by teachers is it? It's initiated by the government.

LoopyLoopyLoopy · 01/10/2013 15:18

Retropear Union members can only strike about their own t&cs, not wider policy.

The reason most have (in my opinion) chosen to strike is because of the systematic erosion of state education, which does include, but is by no means limited to, teachers' t&cs. However, on all paperwork, union website info etc., only t&cs can be given as a reason.

mrsscoob · 01/10/2013 15:21

You have obviously read that letter that is doing the rounds on facebook and decided to make a post about it without knowing any of the facts. Let that be a lesson learned.

KinkyDorito · 01/10/2013 15:32

Teachers don't fine you - the government does

I am that angry over the changes to education FOR MY CHILDREN AND YOURS that I am striking today. This is not about working to 68 for me. It's about the proposed changes to the school day. Imagine how tough it's going to be to take your children on holiday when we are in school for an extra 6 or more weeks a year, 8 hours a day and Saturday mornings. Parents really should be supporting this one; it is ridiculous. I'm angry as a parent not just a teacher.

As I said on a very similar thread yesterday, Gove is systematically grinding down state schools, the teachers who work in them and the children who go to them. He doesn't give a toss about the well-being of your kids. I, for one, want to have a family life and I don't want my children in school for that length of time.