To not want to be intimidated by an HGV driver on a busy motorway.

[EdwiniasRevenge]

I was on the motorway today. Fairly busy but fluid and freely flowing traffic.

I was travelling at about 55-65mph in the slow lane. I wasn't in a hurry and found myself approaching a car +caravan in lane 2.

As I was doing an acceptable and safe motorway speed and I was in no hurry I decided that I wwasn't going to weavve out to lane 3 to overtake and I wasn't going to break the law by 'undertaking'. I was also approaching my junction. I sat behind the caravan in my lane (ie ensuring I wasn't in the caravan blind spot).

An HGV approached from behind, and continued to drive in my estimation, less than 2 car lengths behind me. It was so close that all I could see in my mirror was the radiator grill. I literally could not see his winscreen. I could not see the number plate.

I touched my brakes gently couple of times to indicate that he was uncomfortably close.

A couple of minutes late rhe was using his horn to tell me to move.

As it was a 4 lane motorway it would have been legal for the lorry to move out to lane 3 if he was tgat desperate. Meanwhile I felt intimidated and unsafe.

I just don't get why the OP posted in a forum which essentially asks a question unless it was to get congratulatory or commiseratory posts.

If you want people to validate your behaviour it seems you already got that from your neighbour.

I drive 300 miles a day on the M4. I see loads of people like you who are intimidated by using the motorway full stop as they don't seem to be able to think ahead. You are an accident waiting to happen regardless of what the Highway Code says because your 'anxiety' at your 'intimidation' lead to you trying to get an HGV to break sharply. Use your hazard lights if you need to convey a message in future or better still stay away from the motorway or get more training.

FTSU, umm no there isn't. 'Within' =/= 'As close to'.

OP did the right thing by tapping her brakes so the lorry could see her brake lights. According to my driving instructor who presumably knows more about the rules and keeps up to date with the Highway Code than most drivers.

Undertaking would not have been correct according to the Highway Code.

Hazard lights are NOT appropriate in this situation.

The problem was the caravan, not the OP. But loads of people develop bad habits and forget the Highway Code once they have passed, so loads of people will tell her off.

Your driving instructor doesn't have a clue

Agreed AKAK. Edam, you may think you know it all but why not gain some personal experience on the motorway before quoting your 'driving instructor's' somewhat questionable advice.

Brake lights means a car is braking which will cause others to do the same. An HGV does not have the same stopping distance as a car so has to be more aggressive in their braking. He may well have been too close for the OPs comfort but would have been looking ahead anticipating ahead. Unexpected breaking can cause an accident.

My driving instructor showed me how he could roll a fag and drive! They attendants of the road. Tapping your brakes is never appropriate.

Op you didn't do anything wrong!

I am Getting worried about driving on a motorway after reading the comments on this thread saying otherwise. Scary how many bad drivers are out there!

Netguru - yes, it will take hgv longer to stop. Therefore they need a longer dropping distance and are being very unreasonable not to leave one.

How do you know the hgv driver in question was looking and anticipating ahead? its a good idea for them to do so (obviously!) but they can't assume that because they haven't seen a reason for the car in front to break it won't.

If touching break lights on will make them crash they definitely shouldn't be in charge of a lorry!

OP, my answer to your question is - YANBU to want not to be intimidated by a HGV.

There is obviously considerable difference of opinion on here as to whether your actions were reasonable or not but I can't see any justification for the HGV driver's aggression.

One question I don't think has been asked is, did lane 1 (i.e. the lane you were in) eventually become the exit or would you have to pull off that lane to leave the motorway? That is imporant because if so it would explain why the caravan stayed in lane 2.

Netguru - interesting point. I was in a similar situation on a single lane road, dark and stormy night a couple of weeks ago. In a queue of fairly fast moving traffic (55-60). No chance of overtaking. Van behind was tailgating. I did slow down as I'd rather have a crash at low speed than at high speed. Even when the van had the chance to pass on the dual carriageway it wouldn't go past. Not until I had dropped to forty.

I didn't realise that sticking your hazards on was what the professional driver would advise. I certainly wasn't happy at having to brake but felt for the safety of my family and other drivers it probably was the best option. If hazards is the answer I'd be happy to give it a go.

Any other pro's out there care to comment on the use of hazards as a way of saying you are driving to close?

too close!?

Dh was told to 'tap' the brakes on a driving course he had to take as a result of a speeding infringement........It was mostly geared at people who had done over 30 in a 30 limit and justified this by complaining that people tailgate you. Not ever so helpful for dh (78 in a 70 limit)

I have to say I'm confused by what the op has said. At first she said 'I was travelling at about 55-65mph in the slow lane. I wasn't in a hurry and found myself approaching a car +caravan in lane 2' - which means that she should have been able see and avoid the whole situation by moving out earlier. When asked about that she then said 'I don't think I approached the caravan from behind. I think it was alongside me as I merged onto the motorway'. So that would mean she was boxed in as soon as she joined - and yet the traffic behind her was able to move out.

Tbh the more I read the more I think the OP was not paying attention to what was going on. Your indicators are there to show other drivers what you intend to do. If they are driving up behind you they need to respond to your indications not simply roar past. That goes for cyclists and cars too btw - anybody who sees a cyclist indicate right should stay back till they've completed the manouvere. Funny how many drivers don't but simply carry on, on the outside. Indicating is informing that you will me moving (if it's safe to do so). It's not asking permission. The cars coming up behind the Op should have slowed and moved if she'd been indicating, which she wasn't.

Northern Lurker: Was the OP indicating? Edwinia, you didn't say you were sitting on the inside lane indicating to pull out?

I read it that you were just sitting in the inside lane, unsure whether to undertake the caravan pootling along in the middle lane. And you were being intimidated by a great big HGV.

Edwinia, faced with the same situation would you do anything different? For your own safety/heart rate?

(We are all bound to be in this kind of situation at some point in the future.)

I know she wasn't indicating. She should have been.

Can't believe this is still going!
There is a beautiful irony about roadblocking. HGVs 'overtaking' one another for ten minutes at a time, forcing everyone else into lane 3.
Still think the OP was a tad incompetent, but the caravan was worse.
Hate middle lane hoggers. Grrrr.

Ah! So that the traffic in lane 2 would slow down and enable her to pull out. Yes

But she didn't want to pull out. Do you think she should have pulled out then? And sat behind the caravan? Or go into lane 3.

If it was me, I suppose I would sit because I wouldn't want to miss my junction.

Well that's where I'm confused about what happened - because yes if she caught up with the caravan then granted she may have worried about missing the junction BUt should have anticipated the problem by looking ahead and avoided the scenario. If on the other hand the caravan was there as soon as she joined then she would have had longer to move and should have done so. Do you see what I mean?

The advice if you are being tailgates is first and foremost to move out of their way if it means going around a roundabout to lose them so be it.

If you can't get out if the way you should drop back from the vehicle in front of you, so that if you do have to brake suddenly you are less likely to get shunted into the vehicle in front.

You should never ever tap your brakes. You can cause an accident by doing this, causing people behind you to brake suddenly.

For what it is worth, my understanding of undertaking is that it is not illegal if your lane is moving faster than other the other lanes. This doesn't apply if you deliberately change lanes to the left to get past someone, but entry of times I've found myself in the inside lane doing a reasonable (within the limit) speed and come across a numpty sat in the middle lane doing 60 for no apparent reason. By maintaining my speed and passing him, I am not in the wrong - he/she is for lane hogging.

Northern: Yes, I do see what you mean.

As I wasn't there, my feeling about this is: it all happened too fast.
If her motorway was joining another motorway (on a curve for example as happens on my local road) it can be difficult to see what is happening ahead and the chance to change your course is gone very fast. Even faster if you are hurtling along at 80mph.

FWIW and to answer the OP I think the HGV was BU: We are a long time dead.

To all those people who think that 55 on the inside lane is unreasonable, you must be getting very frustrated all the time, you poor souls. I have noticed a drop in the average speed of cars since the hike in petrol prices these last few years. Definitely more people travelling below 60. And less and less cars doing 80, 90, 100mph.

If a car/caravan was doing 50mph in the middle lane I think OP you should seen this well in advance and not waited until you were almost level with them in your lane to decide it was not safe to overtake so I think YABU. Also doing that speed on a motorway is not always safe because you are not keeping the flow moving. The caravan was also BU.

Advice on how to deal with tailgaters

Great post Frankel.

The way I see it is the caravan was in the wrong by remaining in lane 2, and the HGV was even more in the wrong by driving dangerously. The only thing the OP was doing was going a bit slowly, in the correct lane. Though 55 mph might feel a bit slow on the motorway, anything over 50mph is an acceptable speed.

70mph is an absolute limit, not a target. In any event, most lorries cannot go faster than 60mph so the driver shouldn't have been in such a hurry.

It's not generally good driving to overtake and weave in and out of lanes near a junction just to get two cars in front of where you were. Much safer to drive defensively and stay in lane one.

What the OP could have done, if near the junction, is to speed up in lane 1 and in fact pass the caravan. But it isn't obligatory.

What the caravan should have done is either overtook or dropped back into lane 1, they were hogging the middle lane and could be fined.

The lorry driver will soon find him or herself either being done for dangerous driving, or causing an accident. Hopefully the former before the latter.

FrankelInFoalTue 01-Oct-13 16:48:25

I'm repeating the advice. You can slow down by easing off the accelerator, you don't have to brake.

Like I said, the number 1 piece of advice is get out of the way!