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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that Gove has no idea of the impact his latest policy has on yet another cohort of pupils

60 replies

June2008 · 30/09/2013 21:55

Mr Gove has no idea what his new policy will do to yet more pupils. That only the first time a pupil takes an exam will count towards the overall results. Those children that thought they would be doing an exam in a few weeks time may well not be after today's announcement. No retakes to count.

While I actually have no problem with the principle of the idea, why introduce it half way through a gcse course?

This is going to bring about some real soul searching from teachers and school leaders.

Aibu to think that he should leave alone the pupils who are half way through their courses and introduce it for those taking the terminal exams in 2015?

OP posts:
FirstVix · 30/09/2013 23:51

[And that BTW is shit as it should ALL be about the students' chances and education. But unintended (I hope) consequences and all that]

AcrylicPlexiglass · 01/10/2013 00:04

My son's school seem to enter kids for about 13 or 14 exams and about half of those in year 10. Very glad to see this end- I think 8 or 10 subjects well taught and properly studied in breadth and depth over the 2 years is a much better idea.

Darkesteyes · 01/10/2013 00:14

I read somewhere (it might have been on this site actually) that boys do better in exams and girls do better in coursework. They want more boys to pass.

And anyone who doesnt no matter their gender....well more fodder for workfare.

So its win win for them

IHeartKingThistle · 01/10/2013 00:15

A fair amount of students go off the radar in Year 11 for various reasons, and attendance can be a huge issue. A grade in the bank in Year 10 is a great thing for student and school for those that may not make it to the final exam.

I'm not sure how I feel about league tables being affected by this but Gove is a twat for messing with yet another year group. I'll never forget those big lads of mine from Set 3 in tears because they hadn't got their Cs when they changed the grade boundaries.

IHeartKingThistle · 01/10/2013 00:16

Clumsy sentence, sorry!

ravenAK · 01/10/2013 00:23

Moving to terminal y11 exams, with no early sittings, is fine.

Well, there's plenty of arguments pro & con, but it's certainly a defensible position.

What is terribly not fine at al is deciding this for the current y11 cohort who have been working their arses off all month in the expectation of sitting their exam next month, the week after the exam entries went in.

This is pure political grandstanding to get his ugly phizz in the papers the week of the Tory Conference. It's a stupid, cruel & pointless thing to do to 16 year olds who are already under so much stress that they twang if you look to them. I teach 60 of them, poor sods. They deserve better.

I'm furious on their behalf.

frogspoon · 01/10/2013 06:25

I'm a teacher.

I'm not sure why everyone has such an obsession with sitting so many exams early and getting a mediocre grade. Most hard working students will go up at least a grade per year, due to the extra time spent learning the subject. Taking too many subjects means less time spent on all of them, resulting in lower grades overall. Also students taking fewer subjects will choose their favourites and are likely to work hard at them.

Most universities surely would rather see 9 A-Bs rather than 14Cs.

Ilovegeorgeclooney · 01/10/2013 06:26

One again Gove demonstrated his respect for teachers, pupils and parents by announcing a major change whilst lunching with his cronies. It might be trite but he really is an Eton Mess.

englishteacher78 · 01/10/2013 06:39

I'm another person in favour of the idea but not the timing. I've always taught to terminal year 11 for GCSE. BUT, this continual messing with courses which are already underway is unacceptable and, to my knowledge, not something that previous education secretaries have done. He's not listening so I'm striking.

meditrina · 01/10/2013 06:47

I think constant exams from year 10 to year 13 is pretty dire. Nit's become far too relentless, and I don't think parents realise, until their eldest teen is embroiled, how they seem to be constantly at it.

Yes, it's wrong to do this to a year group - the Thatcherite reforms which brought in GCSE in the first place was trialled for some years, not brought in when a year group was already part way through.

I've seen zero reporting on Gove at the conference. I doubt very much that have this announcement was made for pr purposes. Especially as there must have been some consultation.

HooverFairy · 01/10/2013 06:48

My heart goes out to the students who really need to have the option of taking an exam more than once : the anxious students, the poorly students, students with additional needs, students who have a difficult home life - the list goes on.

Early entry has it's place and can take away a lot of stress for most students, some use it as a practice which I feel is absolutely fine. I think Gove has a point about schools using it to raise their position in the league tables but taking it away half way through a course is disgusting, he's not thinking of the students who should be sitting this exam in about 5 weeks. They've had their safety net taken away at the last minute, I really don't agree with that.

He could have waited a year, with all the changes he's making this is just another that most people wont see the benefit of.

meditrina · 01/10/2013 06:53

I've just googled and found it.

There's zero impact on the pupils, who can still have as many resits as they want/need.

It is only the school league table that will change.

So all the schools who are sure they are doing it like this, solely in the pupils best interests, will be able to continue to do so.

I suppose it them becomes a question of whether schools will continue with as many early entries. Twigg agrees that multiple entriIThen've order to "game the system" is wrong.

So not a Goveism - a step with cross party support as Labour thinks its a good idea too.

sassytheFIRST · 01/10/2013 06:56

I'm so cross about the timing of this. My current year 11 were going to sit their English exam in November - they won't pass as they are bottom set and not capable sadly, but they will benefit from entering their Speaking and Listening grades. Like lots of children they have far greater confidence and articulacy orally - and it's an important communication skill, right? It also gives them an extra chance as they will all be re entered in june. Now my Headteacher is concerned and wants to pull them because of league tables.

I know Gove has a vision and I agree that schools have played the system somewhat (who wouldn't, frankly, when league tables are so vital?). But it is my bottom set boys and thousands like them who are suffering and that's bloody awful.

What happened to consultation, anyway?

meditrina · 01/10/2013 07:12

The revamp of the English GCSE syallbus is a separate issue from how number of resits are counted, and I had thought OP was about the latter.

The abolition of speaking and listening was announced back in April, proposal having originated with Ofqual some time before that.

mummytime · 01/10/2013 07:21

Well it's just there to punish a school like my DCs which will do whatever it can to ensure that as many pupils as possible have the "magic" C grades in Maths and English. I'm pretty sure they will carry on multiple entering those who need more than one bite of the cherry, for whom a C grade is a real stretch.

sassytheFIRST · 01/10/2013 07:25

Unlikely, mummy time - there is a significant cost involved in entering students twice or more for the same exams. Worth it if it improves your grades as a school, probably not so if it degrades them (as you are held to account by the students' first result only).

TheFallenMadonna · 01/10/2013 07:30

We were going to enter our year 11s three times. We had no intention of not continuing Maths to the end of year 11, but our students respond well to the confidence boost that a C gives them. Our results (and therefore very importantly the attainment of our students) has improved significantly with early and repeated entry. And OFSTED, who look carefully at this, agreed with us.

I would like to see his evidence that students are disadvantaged. Schools would not do it if this were the case.

The only reason to decouple the school's performance from the that of the students is to punish schools.

OddBoots · 01/10/2013 07:40

I'm not fan of Gove (far, far from it) but do you think the timing might be intentional for the benefit of those in Y11 whose schools might not have entered them for November if they had known this at the same time as the summer S&L announcement?

Lastofthepodpeople · 01/10/2013 07:40

I think it's a daft idea but it's even worse to change it suddenly with no warning. DH is a teacher and they are now having to suddenly look at changing their plans for the year. Ridiculous, poorly thought out and poorly planned like all of Gove's ideas.

noblegiraffe · 01/10/2013 07:58

FallenMadonna, your system of resits possibly doesn't disadvantage students, however early entry does, where students are not then re-entered and given a chance to improve their grade

Evidence:
www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/184109/DFE-RR208.pdf

I absolutely agree with efforts to stop some of the nonsense of GCSE early entries that some schools operate, where the grade is banked rather than improved upon.

This November sitting was the last chance to use it for early entry, as from next year it will be for resits only, so the timing of this announcement, after the November entries have been done is purely to catch those who are trying to get around the speaking and listening result being pulled.

englishteacher78 · 01/10/2013 08:02

Noble - which I firmly believe shouldn't have been done mid-course.
So glad I teach IGCSE.

IShallWearMidnight · 01/10/2013 08:02

is it possible to sit the exam in November, not cash in the grade, then resit in June, picking the best grades to cash in for the GCSE? I understand our school has done something along those lines for early entry MFL, which will benefit DD if she can resit part of the GCSE.

wordfactory · 01/10/2013 08:12

I think the timing stinks!

But I completely agree with stopping the early sitting of GCSEs.

The only time a student should sit a GCSE early is because they are already able to obtain a top grade and would be bored re-hashing the syllabus.

Sitting early as a 'let's suck it and see' exercise is wrong. Schools who expect their students to resit several times as par for the course need to be prevented from doing so!

hackmum · 01/10/2013 08:15

I was quite shocked by what a friend told me - I don't know if anyone can confirm.

Gove has ended the speaking and listening module of English GCSE. I was aware of this, but what I didn't realise is that he has apparently brought it in with instant effect, so my friend's son, now in year 11, did some assessed speaking and listening work in year 10, which now doesn't count for anything.

I haven't seen anything else written about this - have other people found this too?

englishteacher78 · 01/10/2013 08:21

Hackmum no, it will not count. All that effort, for nothing. And indeed lesson time which could be spent on something else - it's not a great time to be an English student.