To agree with workfare in principal?

[IAmMiranda]

Donning my flame retardant underwear - though note I'm not for the current scheme, but the principal is sensible.

Working for unemployment benefits makes sense to me - provided that the "wage" is fair for the hours and skills. Eg. £90 a week job sellers could equal 15 hours of charity work?

Taking into account disabilities, childcare and other responsibilities I really don't think its unfair to provide people with jobs to earn the equivalent of benefits?

I do think its wrong to line the pockets of corporations, reduce jobs for other workers etc but surely charity work is an option?

I think I've probably missed some huge glaring point but AIBU?

(NOTE: I have previously been in reciept of JSA and would happily have done 15 hours a week and had plenty of time to job search)

inabeautifulplace.....are you including those who get Child Benefit.

soontobe Do you think that job would have been there if the employer had to pay 100% of the wages.

I CANT BELIEVE that we are having to debate over whether employers should pay a percentage of wages or indeed any wages at ALL in 2013!

Darkesteyes:

There's nothing wrong with encouraging kids to be independent; in Sweden kids tend to look after themselves from age 8

Everyone who says its exploitation:
Do you think that te mandatory 2 weeks work experience in year 10 at school are exploitation?

YANBU. I agreed with it in the sense that a few dedicated hours to local charities/services that were relevant to the job seeker and helped them gain experience. But what they did with it is unforgivable, absolutely disgusting IMO.

I remember arguing with my JSA advisor about working one morning a week in a charity shop and not being able to do that, I felt fucking helpless and was sinking into depression desperately trying to find work in a town with no jobs. The people in my '3 month "how to find a job" meeting' who had been employed for 20 years by a company that went bust wanted to work, desperately, but the longer they kept out of experience the worse chances they had of finding work. I remember one guy in his 40's being really upset as he'd been offered a day a week's work in a charity using his IT skills and they told him that if he took it they'd deduct his benefits.

Sorry but how on earth can you work 11 hours of anything around childcare if you're receiving about 70 quid a week and 11 hours of childcare would cost, at a bare minimum, 55 quid? Are you to be expected to feed yourself and one child on £15? That seems to me completely unreasonable in every respect. If you have more than one child then your childcare bill would exceed your incoming money. And even if you have a kid eligible for fifteen hours preschool or whatever, how on earth are you going to be expected to find a job that you can do in the two hours between dropping them off and picking them up (factoring in a walk to the preschool and on to work)?

And it hardly matters whether you agree with the ethos of picking up dog poo and scrubbing graffiti. Just do it or lose your benefits

Btw, I'm in no way comparing benefit claimants to criminals!

No you're are just suggesting benefit claimants clean up other peoples dog shit and clean up after other peoples criminality.

Convicted criminals on community service don't even have to clean up dog shit, why the fuck should a JSA recipient have to do it?

Depends how they are treated Sugar. In the 80s it was called Project Trident. I did 3 weeks work experience at Rumbelows. I went to the interview and at the end of the interview i asked about having a uniform to wear. Boss of the place said it wasnt needed and that what i was wearing was fine.
During those three weeks i did ask a few times whether what i was wearing (usually a jumper and/or blouse and a long skirt) was ok or did they want me to wear something else He kept saying ....no it was fine and that i looked quite smart.
Do you want to take a guess what the final report said that he filled in when the placement came to an end.? ....yes thats right he reported back to the school that what i was wearing wasnt apporopriate and that i should have made more effort #gaslightingoldgit So my first foray into the world of employment taught me that employers arent truthful. Probably not a bad lesson to learn though i was pretty furious at the time.
My cousin who lived in London at the time had to do his placement in a bank and his parents were told to buy him a suit and suitable shoes. They wernt happy about it because as they said , he wouldnt be getting a wage to cover this expense.

See what I don't get is why it is working in retail that is workfare. Surely there are loads more types of jobs, manual or otherwise which people could be made to work for benefits in

Herisson What about those without kids? I didn't have any (stioll don't) when I was on JSA. I wanted to settle down and have them and the only way to do that was to move back in with parents and get a job, but I couldn't get a job. A big part of that was because I didn't have recent experience, but when I tried to get experience I couldn't because I'd have my benefits removed. It was a vicious cycle. I ended up going back into seasonal work after 6 months but not many people see that as an option or have that as an option.

So what manual job would you like to work for your Child Benefit in Debs

Surely there's plenty of call for TAs. Their shit pay can be undercut, and no-one needs to be qualified for teaching anymore according to this government.

Oh yes, I do see that it's really hard even for those without kids, Pixie. I was just making the point that we get talked at a lot about parents getting back into work etc and on these terms, 11 hours work a week for your benefits, it wouldn't even be possible without heavy family support which most people don't have. And the lack of support is the same for those without kids as those who have them, only when you do have kids it's much harder because they don't fit in around weird hours or working every weekend or whatever and you have to pay more than you're receiving for every hour that you're at work. Not belittling the experience of childless people in the same situation at all, I promise. But EVERYTHING is harder with a child or a few in tow.

Litter picking, dog shit picker, graffiti cleaner? FFS I have really heard it all now.

If these things need doing then create bloody jobs with a wage and employment rights not fucking force people (some may I add may just be going through a bad patch) to do it.

Some of your attitudes are disgusting. I really am bowing out now. I also hope that those of you that think this way never find yourself in that position. What a sad fucking world we live in nowadays.

At least some of us can see past the crap that is spouted at us, and we don't all think that benefit claimants are lazy fecking arseholes, some might be, but not all. Just look past the end of your noses listen to others and read up about these things, it's not all as clear cut as it seems.

And I am out.

YY Herison When i was working in a sex chatline office a colleaugue of mine had to bring her 11 year old daughter into work because her sitter fell through.
She couldnt afford to not come in.
We had to find somewhere for the young girl to sit where she wouldnt be in earshot of the calls.
Trouble is when we had to do domination calls we had to shout as part of it.

Darksteyes When I could afford to take DD horseriding they were often crying out for people to help out. I would much rather, and have done, muck out a stable, fix a fence, clean tack then help out in a charity shop or poundland or sit in an office.
How about dog walkers for the RSPCA or trainee gardeners?
Any job which requires people to be up and about. They would be benefitting small businesses who could easily go under without free/cheap help rather then fucking Tescos

Also I think that apprenticeships might be a good idea for people to retrain. It is brilliant getting young people into a career but damn annoying when you find out you are 10 years too old to join.

Apprenticeships?? And which industries/occupations are offering these? If only.

Jesus, Darkesteyes. Poor kid. Poor mum. I bet she felt terrible.

I will ask again Debs What would you do as a stipulation of receiving Child Benefit.

YY Herris she did Thing is that scenario probably going to be repeated if it hasnt already.

I'm sure it has, many times. I'm so fucked off that I live in a society that thinks that this is all right.

twitter.com/suttonnick/status/384430397666258944/photo/1

That front page with Camrons attitude to the unemployed and the bullying on X Factor sums up where our whole culture is today.

I would do something which would help me get a career that I both want and can attain. ATM I am doing an access course to get into Uni to study midwifery so I am volunteering as a doula, a breastfeeding peer supporter and at a children's centre. If I was told that I had to stop this volunteering to do a few hours at a poundland I would not be happy. Stacking shelves will not help me be a midwife

"That front page with Camrons attitude to the unemployed and the bullying on X Factor sums up where our whole culture is today."

:( Very true. I'm very glad that DPs career (when he finishes uni) is going to be our get out clause from this country, god knows where we'll go but I'm dreading how things are going here :(

Any activity which the council doesn't want to bother with paying for / community service should NOT be used for workfare - if a job needs to be done, then someone should be paid to do it.

The problem is that workfare is only really benefitting the companies who are paid to do it.

In fact, if the government wants to do it properly, maybe workfare payments could be something that companies apply for e.g for someone volunteering for a charity, said charity could apply for workfare payment and use the funding to aid training and development of that volunteer to gain skills for a CV.

Because it is nonsense that someone finding their own relevant voluntary work for experience when unemployed then loses benefits if they don't do a prescribed work placement which won't enhance their job prospects.