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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To agree with workfare in principal?

706 replies

IAmMiranda · 29/09/2013 11:23

Donning my flame retardant underwear - though note I'm not for the current scheme, but the principal is sensible.

Working for unemployment benefits makes sense to me - provided that the "wage" is fair for the hours and skills. Eg. £90 a week job sellers could equal 15 hours of charity work?

Taking into account disabilities, childcare and other responsibilities I really don't think its unfair to provide people with jobs to earn the equivalent of benefits?

I do think its wrong to line the pockets of corporations, reduce jobs for other workers etc but surely charity work is an option?

I think I've probably missed some huge glaring point but AIBU?

(NOTE: I have previously been in reciept of JSA and would happily have done 15 hours a week and had plenty of time to job search)

OP posts:
SpookyNameChange13 · 29/09/2013 14:56

I don't think there is anyone on JSA currently who has applied for zero jobs, applying for jobs is a condition of JSA and you will be sanctioned if you don't...or if you are deemed to not be applying for enough.

wannabedomesticgoddess · 29/09/2013 14:58

Yes, I was illustrating a point....

Original poster
IAmMiranda · 29/09/2013 14:59

It's not hard to lie with JSA. You have to fill out a spreadsheet with how you've tried to find jobs. Eg. "looked in newspaper", "gone on job site"

Not saying everyone lies but some certainly do

OP posts:
wannabedomesticgoddess · 29/09/2013 15:03

I agree. It is easy to lie. Which is why workfare isn't achieving anything except punishing the honest.

SpookyNameChange13 · 29/09/2013 15:04

It is hard to lie.

That is not how it is done any more.

You have to give checkable details of jobs you have applied for and your advisor will suggest jobs for you to apply for, you must provide evidence that you have done so.

Heard of universal jobmatch?

Currently still optional as far as I know, but lots of claimants are told they have to use it and it keeps a record of your jobsearch. its actually a reasonable method, but you have to apply for the jobs your advisor recommends for you...even if they are totally unsuitable ie you are not qualified to do the job. Sanctions can and are imposed if you get it 'wrong'

creighton · 29/09/2013 15:07

IAmMiranda - you think NI should be voluntary? how about income tax? how about state pension contributions? how about contributions to run the NHS?

It has taken 100 years to put the whole welfare package/state together. It was done to protect everyone in the country and not leave the poor or unlucky to die hungry in a ditch or from treatable illnesses.

You will probably get your wish for everything to be voluntary or just disappear when the tories finish dismantling the welfare system, including the NHS. I hope you are saving hard, because you will be relying on yourself to cover all of your expenses.

wannabedomesticgoddess · 29/09/2013 15:08

That system hasn't been brought in where I live yet.

I am sure that the minority who want to stay on benefits will find a way around it though.

SpookyNameChange13 · 29/09/2013 15:11

That system is national.

Custardo · 29/09/2013 15:12

who wants to stay on benefits? and if they are a minority, why bring in these shameful changes

BurberryQ · 29/09/2013 15:15

it is all very well but in areas where there are simply not the jobs, what then?
a young friend of my son's (who spends a lot of time with his disabled mum but that is another story) who is not that 'bright' (ie he is not going to uni) now has to work full time at Poundland to get his JSA - essentially Poundland must be laughing as they will not have to pay for extra Christmas staff this year.....

wannabedomesticgoddess · 29/09/2013 15:17

I am in NI. it is not here yet.

BurberryQ · 29/09/2013 15:18

and another boy in that group of friends has done his utmost to find jobs since leaving school - is now doing 15 hours a week washing up rather than sign on - not 'lazy' at all unlike the crap trotted out by the Daily Mule and its aficianados

SpookyNameChange13 · 29/09/2013 15:26

What isn't in in NI yet?

There are slightly different rules for sanctions on JSA in NI, but you can still be sanctioned under the circumstances I mentioned if you are in NI.

You are expected to provide evidence of job searches in the same way in NI.

wannabedomesticgoddess · 29/09/2013 15:31

The advisers don't choose jobs or chase them up.

Argue with me sure. Do you live here? Do you sign on?

Custardo · 29/09/2013 15:33

then perhaps the system needs looking at, the support given. rather than bring in these shameful changes

SpookyNameChange13 · 29/09/2013 15:38

Advisors in NI can suggest a job for a claimant to apply for.

You can be sanctioned if for whatever reason you don't follow it up.

SpookyNameChange13 · 29/09/2013 15:39

No I don't live in NI nor do I sign on.

Littleen · 29/09/2013 15:46

I think unemployed people over a long period of time (say 3-6 months) should then be made to do a job preferably suitable to their education, for a number of hours that would be equivalent to minimum wage making up what they receive in benefits. Forcing someone to work full time for a very small amount of money, will just mean they do not have the time to apply for proper jobs, and also - who would look after their children, when they can't afford childcare.

wannabedomesticgoddess · 29/09/2013 15:50

They can. Doesn't mean they do. Its a ridiculous system and very easily manipulated by those who don't want to work.

The problems in NI however, are the poor public transport networks, and the lack of jobs. Employers have started to state in their ads where there is no public transport so that the Jobcentre (when they do suggest jobs, but its mainly the steps to work course that does this) will stop making people who don't drive apply for jobs in rural locations.

The Jobcentre here currently has 2137 vacancies. The number claiming out of work benefits in August was 62,000.

Crowler · 29/09/2013 15:54

It's ridiculous to force a highly trained, motivated person who's having a dip in their career into workfare straight out of the gate.

I think it's very sensible to require community service for long term job-seekers, say greater than two years.

BurberryQ · 29/09/2013 15:57

i think there are a minority of people, and i have met one or two of them, who have no intention of earning a living ever. - in which case some community service/training in exchange for their JSA/HB/CTC/CB might be a good idea. However to tar all JSA claimants with this brush is an insult.

rallytog1 · 29/09/2013 16:36

If you're working you should be paid a wage. End of.

Workfare is just a way for big business to profit off the back of what is essentially slave labour. If the work needs doing, it should be through real paid jobs.

Custardo · 29/09/2013 16:38

amen

Darkesteyes · 29/09/2013 17:04

Mrs cog said "as long as it fits in with caring responsibilities."

So carers should be doing workfare should they? Really? Carers are saving this Gov. money as it is.
If they try anything like that with me THEY will be caring for DH

needaholidaynow · 29/09/2013 17:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.