To agree with workfare in principal?

[IAmMiranda]

Donning my flame retardant underwear - though note I'm not for the current scheme, but the principal is sensible.

Working for unemployment benefits makes sense to me - provided that the "wage" is fair for the hours and skills. Eg. £90 a week job sellers could equal 15 hours of charity work?

Taking into account disabilities, childcare and other responsibilities I really don't think its unfair to provide people with jobs to earn the equivalent of benefits?

I do think its wrong to line the pockets of corporations, reduce jobs for other workers etc but surely charity work is an option?

I think I've probably missed some huge glaring point but AIBU?

(NOTE: I have previously been in reciept of JSA and would happily have done 15 hours a week and had plenty of time to job search)

But I know people who have done all those terrible crimes, having fatherless children, "choosing" not to work etc there are reasons for those things (violent abusive men, in diagnosed mental health probs) and I'm not sure why they should be punished more harshly than murderers, which is how I see what is proposed. No I wouldn't judge them either. I'm more inclined to give them enough respect that I'll listen to them and help them out with things they need.

There is enough money to pay now

we have a structural deficit. i.e. even if we woke up tomorrow in boom time, we would still be spending more than we take in in taxation.

so who should pay more? and before you say tax avoiders, can you explain at a detailed level how you would do this. otherwise its like saying wouldn't world peace be nice.

Someone helped me out, patiently and kindly once when I was at my lowest and I'll never forget it, I will be grateful till the day I die.

My parents have this same (as the govt) punishing and draconian approach about "earning" and "consequences" it has never helped me in anything I've done, only hindered.

The acquaintance who gave me his bedroom and slept on the couch for 3 months when I was homeless was the most helpful and influential experience of my life.

People need help and support when they are down, they don't need to be humiliated and bullied.

People need help and support when they are down, they don't need to be humiliated and bullied.

why is working for benefits more humiliating than being on benefits and not having to work for it?

You simply pass legislation which makes it illegal not to pay uk taxes on money earned from the UK market including selling goods and services to UK consumers no matter where the company is based. Then you adequately fund HMRC and ensure those running it don't have business connections which may be a conflict of interest. You ensure HMRC is adequately equipped legally.

And blah blah blah wealth creators will go abroad, well by their nature they aren't wealth creators if they aren't willing to pay uk tax whilst exploiting the uk market. The uk market will still exist and companies will still want to sell people goods and services so I seriously doubt we are in hock to big business in the way proposed.

I'd also bring in profit capping of the type this govt have just abolished which means companies have to reinvest profits into the infrastructure or their employees instead of all the profits going to the shareholders.

You simply pass legislation which makes it illegal not to pay uk taxes on money earned from the UK market including selling goods and services to UK consumers no matter where the company is based.

so you leave the EU? who we do 50% of our trade with?

Because it equates most accurately to community service and it removes personal autonomy.

Did you really need to ask?!

I'm not surprised you are in favour of this if you are that disconnected from the effects of the policy.

Where did I say about leaving the eu?

Darkesteyes- illegal to leave an 11 year old alone?

That's the age they start traveling to secondary school alone and using public transport etc!

Your kids are probably still in nappies and sucking dummies in their teens! LOL

Either way if HMRC was funded better, if they hadn't sacked a load of staff then even collecting the actual tax that has been evaded would cover the gap.

Part of the reason there is a structural gap is because we are bleeding money at the top of the economy and there are plenty of ways around that without increasing taxation.

leaving children home alone

Offred - you do seem full of ideas about who will pay for this free for all for people who make all sort of decisons that mean they contribute less and less to the UK.

What are YOU actually going to do to help all these people who through no fault of their own in your words need support/money etc.

Its rather like people staying at home looking after kids who say their partners are paying for their pension (no we ALL are!) or who make a lifestyle choice and then look to others to fund it.

People come onto threads saying they dont mind paying extra tax for the thing they feel most important to them and then you find that they arent working. There is nothing to stop anyone sending cheques to the Inland Revenue without being forced to - no I didnt think so...

Offered- people don't NEED top ups, they just accept them out of greed!

It's not gonna kill your kids to have second hand clothes and no presents! they'll just turn out less materialistic and might actually be grateful for things, unlike most benefit- family children

Offered- how long was the woman's shift?

And what difference did it make if she had to put her somewhere at work where she couldn't see or hear her anyway?

exactly the same as leaving her home alone!

I can't even begin to unpick either of those hateful and incoherent posts.

My children already have charity shop second hand clothes because we've never been able to afford anything else. We got in trouble recently because we had bought none school branded jumpers for £3 from asda instead of £10 from the school and because we had to pay the school trip money (£13.50) late due to being completely at the bottom of the overdraft before the end of the month.

I don't think I need to explain myself though because I feel you are so deeply and unreasonably prejudiced that you will never be capable of understanding!

SugarMouse

Mine were not/won't be home alone at 11, nor using public transport alone neither.
A school bus is slightly different, not necessarily better but at least dc know that nobody else will be getting on.

There certainly is a sense of entilement around some benefits and people who are in receipt of them For example a friend of mine used to work for the Local Authority as a debt advisor. The idea was to help people who were in debt and on benefits. She lasted 6 months and resigned because she told them that SKY, evenings out and holidays were not actually essential. Someone complained that they felt they were still 'entitled' to them and she felt she had no support from her seniors.

The thing that surprised her most was that people DID think they could have a Blackberry or to have children without thought for who was going to pay for their decisions. They also had NO idea about budgeting. Food was definitely lower down the list as was heating.

Handcream and Offred-

Teenage girls and people who've already had a baby could be given an incentive to get the contraceptive implant

That would save a lot of unwanted children and money in benefits paid out

Those who really don't want a baby can choose abortion or adoption. Remember you are extremely lucky to live in a country where you can obtain a free, safe abortion. You are never forced to give birth.

People are entitled to benefits though...

Obviously people who are calling for debt advice are going to be bad with money...

That is second hand experience.

What I've done so far this week to help people out is taken someone's little boy to preschool in my bike even though I've got a sprained ankle because she's had to give up her car and is struggling, fed my friend tea twice this week, and leant her £50 even though i've not got much myself, she had run out of money because her abusive boyfriend has been taking her money and she had sent her son to school with no lunch because she's too proud to ask to be referred to a foodbank. I've helped someone locate a missing old lady who turned out to be in intensive care... I help people out all the time because I feel they're entitled to expect help when they are struggling.

Hormonal contraception is not without risks. No-one should be bribed to use contraception. Despicable.

Unsurprising people in support of this policy also favour eugenics though. Jeez.

SugarMouse

What planet are you on?
What incentive do you propose should be given? Money?
How would giving somebody an incentive stop them having a baby they wanted.
Who says the babies are unwanted in the first place.

Think she was referring to my comments about rape and sexual abuse potato.

Basically saying poor people should be sterilised and rape babies should be aborted.

Think people forget there is a massive grey area between wanted and unwanted where a baby is concerned.

Most babies are unplanned, I know this because one community thing I do I the maternity forum and we've just written a health equity audit that deals with this stuff, that's really because despite good availability of contraception and education we still have poor control over fertility.

It is also ridiculous to suggest that it isn't hugely traumatic to have an abortion or adoption even when the baby is truly unwanted.

If you feel you have been able to control your fertility well then I think there is a lot of luck involved in that unless you have been abstaining in order not to fall pregnant.