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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to want a religious wedding?

125 replies

flaquark · 29/09/2013 11:13

I had always promised DP that if I ever got pregnant we would get married - so we are getting married.
He is letting me decide all the bits and things. I came to the decision that I wanted to get married in a Jewish ceremony.
We are both jewish but both raised secular and dont believe in a God. But do and did all the other bits.
DP doesnt mind either way so there we go.

I have had more than a couple of comments from people that we shouldnt be doing this, that it is distrispectful things like that.

And it has me doubting and thinking that people will think we are just doing it for a 'pretty' wedding day.

Because I think it's relevant - I'm adopted and dont look 'jewish' (being black with white parents does that) (technically means I'm a convert) so I think I tend to wear my Jewness on my sleeve a bit.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Thepoodoctor · 30/09/2013 13:21

On the slightly flakey basis of having a close Orthodox friend at college, I understand the points others have made about cultural Judaism and would say go for it.

As an adoptive mother of two children who are ethnically different from me, I can understand why you might find it especially important to honour your adoptive family's cultural traditions. So would say doubly go for it Smile

Good luck!

LouiseAderyn · 30/09/2013 13:23

My one regret is that I took advantage of something that would have been denied to my sister. At the time, the discrimination against gay people hadn't affected me so I didnt think about it, which I am ashamed about now. If I was getting married now, I would choose differently.

Am on my phone so cant scroll back but to the poster who said all the traditions of marriage are tied up in religion, that kind of reads as if you dont think atheists should be wearing the white dress etc, either.

My vows didn't have less meaning because I am a non believer. I meant every word. Plenty of religious people have made their vows to god and still ended up breaking them. Vows, no matter who they are made before, are only as significant as their importance to the people making them, iyswim. I've put it a bit clumsily, but I hope it makes sense

HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 30/09/2013 13:26

Someone will be along in a minute to correct me if I'm wrong, but in Germany you have to get married at the registry office, which is where all the legal stuff is done. If you then want to get married (or celebrate your union, or however you want to put it) in a church or synagogue or on the beach, you go ahead and do that. I have a feeling it's the same in France and Poland.

HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 30/09/2013 13:27

OP you are not being unreasonable - I think you should have the ceremony you want.

HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 30/09/2013 13:30

And one more aside (sorry for derailing OP)

When DH and I got married I think it must have been in the most liberal church in the world. The vicar was a gay woman and she offered us a secular humanist version of the wedding ceremony where God would not be mentioned at all! We chose the traditional one...

I also believe it was (one of the) first churches in the world that married gay couples. I am very proud of this - United Church of Canada.

droppedscones · 30/09/2013 13:39

I think, op, that you can't please everyone all of the time, and this is clearly one of those situations. So, yanbu and you should just please yourself and have courage in your own convictions. Am I the only one singing 'then I saw her faace, now I'm a believer to themselves?

Catsize · 30/09/2013 14:02

hearts, you are right. They do not have Established churches. That is the difference. It is the same here in some cases. For example, a Catholic wedding is not automatically recognised legally unless there is a civil element or the officiator is registered under civil law. Wales has The Church in Wales, which is disestablished, but retains an obligation to marry and automatic legal recognition of its weddings for reasons too long for this post.

Chunderella · 30/09/2013 14:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tiptops · 30/09/2013 14:38

YABU.

I can't understand why you want to make your wedding vows to/ before a God you don't believe in?

It is disrespectful to people who believe in God, I'm not surprised you've had comments. Participating in festivals out of tradition is irrelevant, if you don't believe in God then it's unfair to have a religious wedding.

Catsize · 30/09/2013 14:44

Eh? Whoa! Where has that come from?! Besides, agnosticism is different entirely to atheism.
Just interested in how people feel they can enter into a covenant with a God in which they do not believe. I listen to the words they and the vicar say and think 'but bride and groom, you don't believe any of this stuff'. Is that passing judgment? And I am surprised that people think that people who DO believe will be entirely comfortable with this.
The cultural heritage point is entirely different and one I personally haven't addressed, so please don't throw fire balls! Brew

Catsize · 30/09/2013 14:45

My post was directed at chunderella by the way, not you tiptops.

eeyore2 · 30/09/2013 15:03

I really hope you ignore any ignorant comments and go ahead with your Jewish wedding ceremony! As others here have said Judaism is much more about what you do than what you believe. No rabbi would ever interrogate you about your precise beliefs regarding "God, the universe and everything" before proceeding with the wedding planning, because it's just not relevant. What is relevant is that you will be honouring your culture and heritage, celebrating an important life event according the time-honoured traditions of your people, and affirming your place within a long chain of history. On a side note, you will also be helping your future children in case they ever wish to marry another Jew as it is enormously easier to get approval for a synagogue marriage if your parents have a valid Jewish marriage certificate. I know of several people for whom this has been a real blessing, even though their parents were certainly not 'believers'.

Chunderella · 30/09/2013 15:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LouiseAderyn · 30/09/2013 15:04

How is it unfair tiptops? It takes nothing away from you, if a non believer gets married in a church.

I find it a bit strange that religious people I know, who have subsequently broken their vows, are deemed to have meant them more than someone like me, who hasn't!

I thought Christianity was supposed to be tolerant and welcoming and non judgemental.

SybilRamkin · 30/09/2013 15:22

You might find that the Rabbi won't marry you if you admit to being atheist.

If you do get married in a Jewish ceremony, you will need to lie and agree to statements you do not in fact believe. Do you really want to begin your married life by lying in front of friends and family?

I don't have an issue with you doing that (it's your life) but I personally wouldn't like to do that, and I suspect it may make some friends and family uneasy.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the very best of luck and happiness for your wedding, I'm sure it will be lovely no matter what you do! Flowers

SamG76 · 30/09/2013 15:49

SybilR

Have you read any of this thread?

"You might find that the Rabbi won't marry you if you admit to being atheist."

No you won't. He won't ask, and even if he did he wouldn't be entitled not to marry you.

"you will need to lie and agree to statements you do not in fact believe"

No - as explained above you don't make any statement at all except for turning up in a dress, so you won;t be lying

"I suspect it may make some friends and family uneasy"

As explained above, anyone with the most basic understanding of Judaism will be delighted for you

Pigsmummy · 30/09/2013 16:10

I am a religious person and I wouldn't mind if you wanted to marry in our church, inclusion, the more the merrier, however in my religion you would have to declare a belief in God and the service is very religious. As a believer I can't see why you wouldn't want to say your vows to God.

I think that you are naive to not expected some back lash though and I wonder what the Rabbi would say if he knew your atheist status.

ABaconAndOnionTart · 30/09/2013 16:40

Louise, I can only explain it by saying that Christians feel that they have a close, loving relationship with God. As you clearly do not believe in God, saying you don't think He would mind is like me saying I don't think your dh would mind you going on holiday without him, for example.

I clearly have no idea about what your dh would mind about or not, as I don't know him. Equally I don't feel you have a right to say what God does or doesn't mind.

Whilst I respect your decision not to believe in God, I feel that you should respect others who do.

sashh · 30/09/2013 16:50

I'm puzzled too - why would non-believers do all that?

For the same reason loads of people do Xmas who don't believe it.

OP

Personally I wouldn't, I would feel I was insulting people who do believe.

LouiseAderyn · 30/09/2013 17:22

Bacon, I do respect your right to believe in god, but really you are in no more position to say what god would or wouldn't mind than I am, since neither of us is in a position to ask.

Original poster
flaquark · 30/09/2013 17:36

Thanks

To those who asked, No I dont believe in God. worra no not a hobby. Simply (as others have explained way better than me) it is part of who we are

pigs Sam explained it way better than I could. As did others. Maybe you are right that it is that fact that Jewish ideas of cultural and what you do as part of that are different

Those who said about me being adopted, I think your right. It is doubly important (to me) to have things that link me more so to my family an culture when I dont look like I fit. As I said I tend to wear it on my sleeve

catsize No I wouldnt. Never be fussed about getting married. DP has been asking to marry me for about 5 years. So my agreement with him was that I would marry him if and when I got pregnant.

OP posts:
SamG76 · 30/09/2013 17:44

Before anyone asks, being pregnant wouldn't worry the rabbi either!

ABaconAndOnionTart · 30/09/2013 17:55

Louise, I take it you have read the bible then?

HarderToKidnap · 30/09/2013 17:56

Judaism is completely different to Christianity in that its a religion of action, not belief. You can go to shul every shabbas, marry in shul, be bar mitzvahed etc without a shred of belief and that is OK. Christianity is based in belief and so most Christians will absolutely not get it. Don't bother discussing it with anyone who isn't Jewish really, this is one area that even the most atheist non Jew might struggle to get.

Mazel tov by the way, hope you have a wonderful wedding and a fabulous marriage.

LouiseAderyn · 30/09/2013 18:32

You'll have to explain that Bacon, as I haven't read a Bible since school.