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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be really pissed off about this or am I just a stupid trusting fool?

35 replies

SpringyReframed · 24/09/2013 20:24

I've just left a job I have been in since June 2012. I took it under dire circumstances which were well documented on here, nasty divorce, no money, DV etc. It was a minimum wage job in a small business and I worked really hard. I was expecting a fair bit of holiday pay in my final pay packet.
However, I called in to get my P45 today for my ex boss to gleefully tell me (without me asking) that I am only due half a day holiday pay. It turns out that this is because the holiday year runs from 1st April till 31st March not 1st Jan to 31st Dec as I had thought. It looks like I missed out on about 10 days paid holiday in the previous holiday year. I am fucking gutted. I got a few days paid holiday over Christmas and that was it. I cannot believe that no one I worked with ever mentioned this as you would think people would be trying to get their left over days in before the year end. When I had a decent job and actually did the wages I used to tell people that they needed to take their holiday.
I know I am a bloody idiot but I had so much else going on that I trusted my boss. I suppose I had only worked for decent people prior to this. I am 54 do perhaps I've been lucky up to now?
I am expecting a good kicking posting on AIBU but perhaps that will do me good.

OP posts:
LindyHemming · 24/09/2013 20:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

emsyj · 24/09/2013 20:31

Ring ACAS for free and confidential employment law advice - you will need to take action asap if you want to challenge this, call and talk it over with them and find out what you can do to recover any holiday pay you are owed.

ACAS

Original poster
SpringyReframed · 24/09/2013 20:32

Yes I had a contract. I had to get one as I needed it for my divorce documentation. I know that others I work with have never been given a contract. I appear to be the only one. I have checked it tonight and that is the first time I realised. When I took the few days holiday last Christmas my boss told me that she had paid me holiday and that I had "two days left over". I took that to mean from 2012.

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 24/09/2013 20:33

They should have told you about your holiday entitlement in writing when you got the job. Don't know if you can try suing them in the small claims court for the holiday pay they owe you from last year. You should have had a written contract setting out your hours and holiday entitlement and if you didn't they are at fault. Not quite sure what to suggest. You could try the CAB. Hope somebody with answers comes along soon.

Original poster
SpringyReframed · 24/09/2013 20:33

Sorry forgot to add that the terms and conditions were never explained to me.

OP posts:
phantomnamechanger · 24/09/2013 20:33

surely this was all laid out in your contract, there can be no room for "assuming" things?

itsn0tmeitsyou · 24/09/2013 20:35

In the first year of your employment, June to end Mar, you would have been earning holidays pro rata, I would have thought, so I'm not sure how you didn't work out how many days you would have got on that basis?

Original poster
SpringyReframed · 24/09/2013 20:35

I know I shouldnt have "assumed" anything. Sad

OP posts:
Iamsparklyknickers · 24/09/2013 20:36

Did you get the statutory minimum (28 days including bank holidays ft)? If so I was under the impression it's your employers responsibility to ensure you can take them so by that logic if you were at the end of an annual leave year it should have been brought up with you.

I think it comes under some EU health and safety/work life balance thingy but am relying on another MNetter to correct me if I'm wrong Blush Maybe post this on the employment board.

If I am right I would be tempted to find out how much it would cost to get a solicitors letter sent and see if it made financial sense to pursue it hoping that'd be enough to put the shitters up your wankstain of an ex-boss.

Snazzyenjoyingsummer · 24/09/2013 20:40

I can't really add to what's here already but wanted to sympathise and say that some employers are just miserable gits and you appear to have been shafted by one of those. See if ACAS can help. It may be that the threat of action might at least make them cough up something.

Original poster
SpringyReframed · 24/09/2013 20:41

I found something about "encouraging employees to take their annual leave" on a law society website paper when I googled it.

I have a solicitor friend who might do it for me.

OP posts:
ancientbuchanan · 24/09/2013 20:44

You've nothing to lose.

emsyj · 24/09/2013 20:46

Lots of small employers are just ignorant of their obligations - it may be that all you need is a simple letter setting out what you believe you are entitled to, and that you have taken legal advice. I wrote a letter for my mum's DP when his small employer underpaid his redundancy entitlement - he got a cheque in the post by return. Just follow it up, call ACAS and get some advice.

Original poster
SpringyReframed · 24/09/2013 20:48

I wonder should I go and see her and tell her that I intend to take it further and see if she coughs up? It certainly will cost her more than it will cost me if I decide to pursue it?

What I do have to lose is that it is a small business in a local community and it could make things quite awkward for me. As I am a single Mum I dont want to damage my social life.

OP posts:
Sleepyhoglet · 24/09/2013 20:52

I don't think the employer did anything wrong. They holiday was there for you to book, you just didn't take it.

MissStrawberry · 24/09/2013 20:57

"As I am a single Mum I don't want to damage my social life."

Choice then. Money or social life.

CuthbertDibble · 24/09/2013 20:57

I don't think you will get very far with your ex-employer. What does your contract say? Does it allow any carry forward of holiday?

Ultimately, you had a contract that stated your entitlement and you didn't read it. Hardly the fault of the employer, although I do agree that most decent employers would remind staff of holiday entitlement.

Original poster
SpringyReframed · 24/09/2013 21:00

I will call ACAS tomorrow and see what they have to say. That will settle it one way or the other.

OP posts:
Iamsparklyknickers · 24/09/2013 21:00

Whatever you do put it in writing, you can be neutral and polite about it. Have a chat to ACAS and put it in your letter you've spoken with them.

Top tip for communicating with ACAS is to have a list of specific questions - they answer not directly about your situation but the legalities of your scenario. If you expect advice you'll be disappointed, if you expect information you'll get loads.

Facts are as I see them:

  1. You were led to believe that the annual leave year was Jan-Dec
  2. At no time was it discussed with you that you had leave to take and how it was going to fit in with cover for their business (so it's reasonable to assume they should query it with you)
  3. They have a responsibility under (this is where you need reliable google-fu, a knowledgeable friend, or a good Mnetter) whatever EU directive/legislation to ensure their employees have a work life balance which includes ensuring they take their statutory minimum entitlement. If you were unaware of the actual A/L year this should have been apparent to them.

End it by saying that you hope this clarifies your queries with them and that you hope it avoids them making this error with any future employees.

Itsaboatjack · 24/09/2013 21:02

I don't follow how they worked it out. Last year you worked from June to end of March (so up to 10 months), and accrued 12/13 days holiday (10 days that you say you lost plus the 2/3 days you got paid)

This (holiday) year you have worked from April to nealy end of September, so 6 months. So how are they working out that you only get 1/2 a day? Have you taken any holiday this year?

LessMissAbs · 24/09/2013 21:03

What does your contract say on the matter?

emsyj · 24/09/2013 21:06

I think you need to take advice from someone who is qualified to offer it and who knows what questions to ask you to get all the necessary information needed in order to ensure the advice is accurate. Then once you know your position, you can decide what to do. It's not really a good idea to take advice from strangers on the internet - call ACAS and speak directly to someone who is properly qualified to tell you where you stand.

emsyj · 24/09/2013 21:06

X-post. Hope you get the answers you need.

Original poster
SpringyReframed · 24/09/2013 21:07

I would have preferred the time off to the money. I was under an enormous amount of stress at that time (I was in court twice as a result of being assaulted by my exh) and reading my contract was not high up on my list of priorities. I read the contract for my new job the minute it arrived which was well before I had started and that was before this happened so I am not normally negligent.

I feel totally fucking taken advantage of. Fucking cow. But like all the other shit I have been dealt in the past few years I will get past this What goes around comes around and all that.

OP posts:
Original poster
SpringyReframed · 24/09/2013 21:12

Sorry was just a bit ranty then.[embarassed]

itsaboatjack, yes I have taken holidays since 1st April and indeed am only owed half a day from this years holiday allowance.

Thanks all. I just posted to have a rant really as I thought I needed a good talking to but I have been given good advice as usual from MN'rs and will call ACAS tomorrow.

OP posts:
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