To try and fight for a refund for my car? Or am I as unreasonable as the dealer says I am?

[OHforDUCKScake]

Got a skoda with 6 months 'warranty'. I say 'warranty' because he wrote in his hand writing '6 months warranty' and I wonder if its worth nothing.

As soon as I get it, there are faults. Major problems with the central locking and lights coming up on the dash.

They (the car dealer and his tosser mechanic) tell me non stop that the locking system is 'just VW and normal' and the light coming on is nothing to worry about ans switch it off.

Ive also had problems with the seat belt and hand break.

I finally persuaded them to look for a fault in the door with the central locking, and by jove they found the fault. Like I kept saying, it WAS a fault and not normal.

Today it went in again with the light on, I begged them to not just switch it off. My 'warranty' runs out in 6 weeks. The light takes about 6 weeks until it comes on again.

So now Ive been given a choice, the dealer says he will swap the car for another. But in the same breath says all his cars have lights coming up on them, and they are all fine. And he'll have no problem selling my car with the light coming on.

I could take it to a Skoda dealer, but cant do so untilthe light comes on again by which time my warranty has gone.

I want a refund. He told me in a threatening tone that I 'dont want to do that. You will be fighting me for 18 months.'

Will I? Is the warranty bs?

Have I just bought 2.1k of faulty crap?

What do I do?

I found this scroll to the bottom for the bit about warranty

You haven't actually said how old the car is as far as I can see, how many years old is it?

Also does it have a full service history, have you got all the previous MOT certificates etc. Have you looked back through all the paperwork, is there anything that sheds any light on its current fault?

I had a toyota which lasted years and the engine light did keep coming on. When I looked into it online it was quite concerning but in reality it just needed new spark plugs.

I think you need to:

1. Get the old/a copy of the receipt.
2. Take the car to a reputable mechanic, tell him whats going on, get him to have a look it and find out what the actual problems are. Then take action depending on the results. So if it isn't too expensive, you could say you would either accept a full refund on the car or split the cost of the repairs by the decent mechanic.
3. Make a list of everything that has gone on so far, so if you do want to pursue this then you have it written down while its fresh in your mind.

Don't engage with AKAK81.

You need to get some proof of when you took ownership of this car, if you don't have the receipt.

Firstly you should ask the dealer. Tell him he didn't supply one & you need it asap.

If he refuses, then surely the DVLA will have a copy of the form he has to send off to prove it is no longer his vehicle & that you have ownership.

Then you make a list of every fault, and every time you have been back to him, with as much detail, and date each visit.

Stop asking online. Get yourself down to a garage (or the main dealer) explain situation & tell them you need to know what this light is & ask them to put it in writing.

Only once you know what it is, can you decide where to take this.

The guy to me, sounds like chancer. So play him at his own game. Tell him, (once your are in receipt of all paperwork/evidence) that he either repairs/replaces/refunds or you start small claim procedures.

Wrt the warranty, it became a warranty issue the first time you mentioned it, so don't worry about him trying to wrangle out of that. You have mentioned it several times, you have been fobbed off, and you have had no joy, therefore the issue is ongoing & the warranty cannot yet expire on that issue (as I believe it to be true of most warranties)

Duck I got a 05 plate micra with 55K on the clock for £2k and for that money, I'd expect the car to last a good few years. I had it checked by a mechanic friend and it's sound. We went to so many dealerships and they were dodgy. I nearly got a nice micra from one dealership but something was off, they appeared on rogue traders a few months later.

YANBU but it sounds like you're screwed, I'm sorry to say.

Don't engage with me? That's ironic seeing as you're the one giving factually incorrect advice.

Actually differentname has given great advice

AKAAK81

To be fair, its clear the bloke has screwed me right over.

1- he gave me a car that almost straight away (days) had a warning light.

2- told me most of his cars have warning lights, its normal and is to be ignored.

3- constantly told turned the warning light off, at one point told me its because I bought my fuel at Tesco. (I never told him where I bought my fuel).

4-Ive gone to get my receipt and warranty from the handbook he put them in, and they arent there. I clearly remember the tosser distracting me at the point where this happened, before he slid 'all the paper work in'.

5- he refused to let me use my card, he insited on paying cash.

6- hes a wanker.

Tig

Ive answered your questions just above your questions.

Its 2003, one previous owner, full service history, 87k miles (yes this is a lot I know, it appeared to be its only downside at the time) MOT went straight through with no advisories. Ive looked through everything and it looks great on paper. All of it. No signs of this issue, I wouldnt have bought it if there was.

Ok I think you've answered your own question, its a 10 year old faulty car, that you've paid over the odds for from some dodgy guy.

I would do everything I could to get my money back.

I'd tell him that until he refunded me I'd park it outside his garage with a giant sign on it, saying "Dodgy overpriced car, bought from here, bullshit warranty, refuses to refund or repair, do not trust him".

I doubt he would want the hassle of actually going to a small claims court if he's some dodgy dealer so just pressurise and pressurise until he does what you want. Phone him daily, go there often and make it clear you aren't letting this go.

Talk to trading standards, talk to anyone who can put pressure on him.

picklebumplum

Actually differentname has given great advice

...but has made some factually incorrect statements, e.g.:

If he refuses, then surely the DVLA will have a copy of the form he has to send off to prove it is no longer his vehicle & that you have ownership.

The V5 does not prove who owns a vehicle; in fact it says in big capital letters on the front, "THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT PROOF OF OWNERSHIP." As a trader the V5 would most likely have never been in his name anyway.

From reading previous posts, AKAK81 clearly has extensive knowledge about cars and is not wrong in saying it's unreasonable to expect zero problems on a used car at this price point.

As posted further up the thread, the EML is not guaranteed to write the car off - best case scenario is it's fixable for under £50.

Still, the trader sounds dodgy as fuck so best of luck with it. Lesson learned that if you don't like a deal (refuses card payment, no receipt, etc.) then walk away.

My last car was 10 yrs old, it had a sticking throttle, I bought it for £150. no engine management lights. all I had to do was take the throttle body off and clean it. It would be still running if some bastard hadn't reversed in to it.

My current car is 22 yrs old, it has an engine management light that comes on and gives a code that is N/A because it doesn't have a cat or o2 sensor on the car. It runs as sweet as a nut.

My point is that 10 yrs old is NOT near the end of a cars life span.

Best thing to do is click the 'if you need more help' link at the bottom of the Adviceguide page a pp linked to. That will give you the number for the citizens advice consumer helpline (which they took over from the oft) - they will be able to give you the most up to date advice and tactics to employ, and may refer your case to your local trading standards (you can't self-refer to TS, has to be done through them). This bit is really important, as you may be able to help TS build a bigger case against the dealer if he has form for this sort of thing.

The fact is that while you wouldn't expect a £2.1k car to be as good as new, this doesn't take away your rights for the car to be of satisfactory quality for its age, roadworthy (seatbelt issue suggests it's not) and correctly described by the dealer.

BoneyBackJefferson

all I had to do was take the throttle body off and clean it.

My point is that 10 yrs old is NOT near the end of a cars life span.

Yeah, but we're talking about different ends of the market; if you can remove, clean and replace a throttle body then you are likely to have the knowledge, realistic expectations and possibly resources to keep a car running indefinitely (quote AKAK: "I run a 16 year old car through choice as I'm capable of repairing and maintaining it myself").

However, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of drivers today would not be able to identify a throttle body*, never mind have the ability (or inclination) to remove and clean it. This does limit the useful lifespan of a car for the majority of consumers.

*From a lot of posts I see or comments I hear, most people can't even tell the difference between wheels and tyres.

"from what I can tell most people can't tell the difference between wheels and tyres"

wmittens they're the big round things that go round the big round things right?!?!

And you definitely add air to one of them!!

I bought my car deliberately because DC's dad knows VW's inside and out. He can fix and maintain them.

However, its one of 8 issues according to the code error. It could be costly to figure out.

However, its one of 8 issues according to the code error. It could be costly to figure out.

I thought it was 4 possibilities from the link above? And there's some troubleshooting that can be done to start with - disconnect each sensor in turn: if the situation is worsened, it probably wasn't that sensor; if it's the same as the current situation, it may be that sensor. If there's no conclusive result, move on to the next level. Also it mentions that the throttle body may be dirty or a leak in the intake - get your DC's dad to clean the TB or check for air leaks.

Reading it in more detail, the issue may not be too detrimental after all.

Is it not as many as 8? I remember 8 bullet points perhaps Im getting my knickers in too much of a twist then.

The only thing we have done so farcis check for air leaks.

I think we will have to tick them off the list.

Actually differentname has given great advice

...but has made some factually incorrect statements, e.g.:

If he refuses, then surely the DVLA will have a copy of the form he has to send off to prove it is no longer his vehicle & that you have ownership.

The V5 does not prove who owns a vehicle

I didn't state it as fact. I am in Australia & have never owned a car in the UK. I have paperwork that state who owned my car before me, I was thinking it may be the same over there.

All cars bought from a dealer have to be of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. the legal test for this includes freedom from minor defects and is in the judgment of the 'reasonable man' having regard for factors such as price paid, age of car etc, so it is correct that the test is lower because the car is older and at the cheaper end of the market. however, if the faults are serious it is still likely to be unsatisfactory. As you bought the car less than 6 months ago the onus is on the dealer to prove that the faults were not there at the time of purchase - if they were more likely car unsatisfactory.

You need to act quickly as your best legal remedy is rejection (for full or partial refund depending on how much you have used it). Contact trading standards ASAP and put your complaint in writing.legal) rights and can't be excluded by the dealer.

I'm a bit confused, is it a VW or a Skoda?

I agree that OP needs to get to a main dealer and get them to give it a once over. I'd expect a ten year old car to have niggles (ours is 5 years and has its quirks) but unless this is some clearly dodgy front garden dealer, I don't think yabu to query warning lights.

Although the v5 won't prove who owns the car, it should have the transfer date on it and be useful information if you need to go to court and compare when you acquired it with when the faults were recognised by an approved service centre. I can't remember which way around it is but presumably you had your part of the v5 (buyer gets the big bit?)

I also agree with whoever suggested going back through any service history and invoices/notes to see if there is any indication that these are recurring faults.
If you don't have a record of the warranty then the expiration of it is somewhat irrelevant. It would keep things easy as then they should fix any faults in that period whilst a normal SOGA would take into account age and the fact that some faults are to be expected so becomes a grey area.

Yes there's also a lesson here in physically checking paperwork yourself before you leave the premises and definitely alarm bells from a business dealing cars who will only accept cash but that's for another day. (incidentally, is this a small forecourt dealer? Or one of the 'trade' sellers you find in Autotrader as that could make a difference in the most effective way of getting a result)

The fact is not whether anyone here thinks the op should expect faults; what matters is what tge law says and as a business he is required to follow tge when selling.

Op my first step would be a full mot/service with a reputable garage which will list everything wrong with tge vehicle. (was tge MOT done by his garage?)

Really do not take this car to a main dealer. They will find plenty of things wrong with it in addition to the EML fault if they can even diagnose it correctly. They will give you an estimated cost more than you paid for the car in all probability. I'll repeat my previous advice - find a good locally recommend skoda specialist - they have an excellent chance of diagnosing the fault and will know the most cost effective method of fixing most of the common issues. Approach the dealer once you have a estimate and try and come to a satisfactory agreement. The dealer has already made two not unreasonable offers of either another car or 50/50 on his £1100 estimate to fix - he will mention these offers in court and in their eyes he'll appear to have made reasonable offers to rectify the situation both of which you have declined. Also worth noting that there are plenty of these dodgy dealers about that owe money through the small claims court - they simply wind up their business one day and reopen the following day under a different name.

a 10yr old vw/skoda isnt near the end of its life - for the record i drive a 13 yr old VW with 110thousand miles (which I have had from new) on the clock and no lights come one (they have done in the past but it has come down to burst hoses not the same issue you are having) its never failed an MOT because its always been looked after and it still drives like a new car.

The EML coming on is a big deal in the sense that it will not now pass an MOT with the light on - it will fail and should have failed its last MOT if it was on then - sounds like someone knows an MOT man who is willing to look past the light coming on and passed the car - you could complain to VOSA about this - they take this very seriously.

It is not a big deal in the sense that a part needs changed - probably the MAF - they are known for MAFs being faulty. There are quite a lot of independent garages which specialise in VWs/skodas - you can probably find one in your area.

i would go back to the garage and ask to look at/test drive other cars to see if they all do have lights coming on - i suspect they dont but he doesnt want to give you a car which works fine when you have taken a car which has problems off his hands.

i should have said if you post on the skoda board ask if someone has access to vagcom www.vagcom.co.uk - this is software developed specifically for VW/skodas and can diagnose the fault correctly - a simple ODB scanner will only give vague codes such as the one you have posted.

someone else posted is it a vw or a skoda - same thing really as vw own skoda and skodas are just rebadged VWs - all the part no's for audi/vw/skoda/seat are the same - its all the same parts they use.

sorry me again you say he said all his cars have dash lights on them - if this is the case NONE of the cars he has for sale cars are road worthy - to be road worthy they need to pass an MOT - since April 2012 NO CAR can pass an MOT with a dash warning light coming on - if they cannot pass an MOT they cannot be road worthy. I would inform trading standards about him if this is truley the case. I would also tell everyone you know to avoid him like the plague.