To be a bit hmm about a person who said she couldn't get on with women?

[TheRunawayTrain]

Apparently female friendships are bitchy (implied/said but not in those words) and so on

I thought we were making friends too. Then I mention I'm friends with this woman who does x (she was talking about that subject so was relevant) and she starts.

AIBU? I asked her why she was writing off half the population (in politer ways) and the conversation carried on awkwardly as we both disagreed, but didn't get heated much. I can remember one woman at university saying something similar. I think dismissing being friends with people for their gender is especially as she's a woman herself!

[squoosh]

FavoriteThings without wanting to seem rude you do come out with an awful lot of babble. If there's a point you like to make please do so.

[squoosh]

'to all the people claiming that women are lovely snuggly balls of wonderfulness and not at all bitchy.

Excuse me, what?

Women can be violent, women can be bitchy, women can be liars, women can be backstabbers, women can be manipulative, women can be conniving, women can be atrocious cunts.

All of the above is true but this does not sum up all women. Is that really so hard to understand?

Are all the anti-women women so very obtuse that they can't understand that having a vagina does not automatically mean that all of the above traits should be assigned to you? God help any daughters you are raising, you must have a very low opinion of them.

[Tonandfeather]

Think some of the experiences talked about here show real bigotry towards women.

We've all met some asshats in our time. I'd defy anyone to say those asshats have never been men.

But there aren't any posts from the anti-women brigade saying "A few men I've worked with were horrible to me, so now I'm very wary of men"

Just hate it when women are expected to be standard bearers for good behaviour. That expectation is never, ever passed on to men.

[FavoriteThings]

Personally I dont think any men I have worked with have been horrible to me.
Though we employ them, have done for years, so that might make a bit of a difference. Though, on the other hand, they could have been horrid, couldnt they?
If you treat men nicely, they are generally nice back.

[BasilBabyEater]

Imagine saying this about gay people, or black people. "Ooh, I've never got on with any black person I've ever worked with, can't think why, it must be because they're all horrid".

That attitude would be treated with the contempt it deserves.

[Tonandfeather]

Gah, if you treat ANYONE nicely, generally they'll be nice back. But there are always asshat exceptions and that isn't gendered. Beginning to think these people who've never met any nasty men must make far more allowances for male asshats than they do women. The sort of people who say 'He's a card!' when some tosser bloke makes a sexist joke, but say 'What a bitch' when a woman is assertive.

[FavoriteThings]

There are exceptions to both are there not, which is the point.

A poster who says "men hold the power". What, all men?
And "they dont give a cxxx if men dont get on with them". Triple, really???

Why cant there be the same number of women who are not very nice, and men who are not very nice?
There we are, the perfect non sexist answer. [assuming the statement is true].

[Tonandfeather]

Of course it's possible that the same amount of 'not nice' women exist as 'not nice' men. What seems hugely improbable is that people have only encountered nasty women and not nasty men. That suggests that those people make far more allowances for men than they do women and are less likely to frame their behaviour as 'bad' than they would if a woman behaved the same way. Plus there seems to be an expectation that women shouldn't behave badly at all, but if they do, they suddenly become standard bearers for their entire sex. That's a standard that is never applied to men.

Structurally, men DO hold the power, so that is factually accurate.

[FavoriteThings]

Someone is saying the same sort of things about men, That is sexist is it not, assuming it is not true.

And no one has actually said what you have just written, as far as I know.

[FavoriteThings]

Not sure my last post makes much sense? You might need to ignore that one

Men dont hold all the power, no. Though quite a lot of it, yes. But not so much in the home.

[FavoriteThings]

And women have far more input into children, the next generation.

[MollyHooper]

What are you on about?

[BasilBabyEater]

Yes poor men, being deprived of having all that input into the next generation.

That's why they dress up in Superman outfits and scale Buckingham Palace demanding the right to paid paternity leave and part time work as a standard for all parents of whatever sex and are demanding part time work in the same number as mothers are and insist that they're the ones who liaise with schools about their children and ensure that their packed lunches and PE kits and music stuff is all ready ferry their kids to the sports clubs and take their kids to GP and dental appointments and co-ordinate playdates and march in the street and lobby their MP's unceasingly so they can have those rights.

Oh, wait...

[PolkadotsAndMoonbeams]

I think it depends on the group of people and the situation really, I find it very hard to believe anybody can't get on with all men or all women.

In general, I would gravitate towards women, probably because I'm more 'used' to them (I was at all girls schools, so all my very long standing friends are female). But when I was at university I started at a society where all the girls were very friendly. If you'd seen me at the beginning, you'd think I was more friendly with the boys there as for the first few months I'd speak to them more, sit with them if we went out as a group and hardly speak to the girls.

It wasn't that I didn't like the girls, but because they were a very tight knit group they were less likely to speak to me, whereas the men would. Also, I lived quite a long way away, so one of the men would often offer to walk me back, so I'd talk to them more and got to know them better. After a few months I knew people better, so was more confident to talk to everybody and they knew me better so would talk to me. I have some great friends from there, both men and women. Even though I'm very friendly with the girls, I'm still especially fond of two men, the ones who were friendly to me the first time I went.

Maybe I was just unlucky, and that the girls were clique-y while the men weren't really? That would probably look like I got on better with the men, but it wasn't really the case!

[FavoriteThings]

I am intrigued by this thread. It is a bit fascinating. BBE, and others,what percentage of men do you think are ok?

I saw parts of Who Do You Think You Are, with Marianne Faithful. I cant remember which country her mum and gran were in during the war, an occupied one, possibly Austria. And the soldiers came and raped her mum and her gran and most of the women in the city. And after that,her mum and her gran turned to hate all men, which also had an impact on Marianne until she was 50. After that, Marianne realised where the hatred of men had come from.

[HarrietIsHistory]

I mostly get on better with men because I tend to have more in common with them, went into a predominately male subject at uni. I wouldn't say that I don't get on with women, I just tend to get on better with men. It has nothing to do with attractiveness or anything sexual, certainly not in my case because I doubt any of my male friends have ever fancied me, I just not the fanciable type.

When I was in my teens and twenties, before everyone settled with partners it was easy to have male friends. Once those male friends got partners and I met my DH it became less appropriate to hang around and socialise with blokes in the same way and the friendships drifted.

Now, most of my friends are women that I have met through baby groups or school. I like them, but often don't feel the affinity with them that I used to find quite easily with my male friends.

I don't find either males or females more bitchy or anything though.

[passedgo]

There was a great programme with that entrepreneur woman not Mary Portas, a while back where they did an experiment on gender. They put together teams yo eork on a project, one all male, one all female. The men competed with each other and decided that they knew better. The women quickly developed a social pecking order and placed popularity in the group before the effectiveness of the project.

When the worked in a mixed group there was a healthy balance of both effective outcome and people pleasing.

Women place more importance generally on being liked, being friendly with the right people. I think some women are simply not cut out for that and so in social situations they gravitate towards men, where there is less pressure.

[FavoriteThings]

Interesting posts.

Would explain why men run businesses work better. They are out to compete with each other, whereas women care more about people pleasing. Hmm. Food for thought.

I loke to anaylise things. I must admit, I do have trouble spotting people pleasers in rl. It doesnt enter my head, so I dont spot it in others.

[CakeForBreakfast]

I don't trust a woman who (says she) cannot get along with other women. I have met a few. They always claim it is nothing to do with sexual competition.

It is always about sexual competition. They need to be special.

Bitchiness is a red herring

[SinisterSal]

who says male run businesses work better? that's news to me. got a link or is it just what you think yourself?

[BasilBabyEater]

Favouritethings what an odd question

I've no idea what percentage of men are OK.

What's the definition of OK?

[Tonandfeather]

News to me too. It's certainly not my experience. What odd ramblings indeed.

[passedgo]

The experiment I referred to showed that projects are mre effective when run by a combimation of men snd women. Too much competition resulted in narrow minded thinking and resemtment from the 'losers'.

It proved that you need both for best results.

[SarahStrattonIsBackForJustABit]

I'll confess I've not read the whole thread, but I'm one of those women who gets on better with men. Although, having said that, there's an awful lot of asshole men about.

I think I've probably just had bad luck, but I can count on one hand the number of women I've physically met (as opposed to all the lovely online MNers) in my life, who have not back stabbed, bitched, and been out to use me for whatever gain they can get.

I do appreciate that it's more likely that it's because I'm a massive pushover, and attract not very nice people, but I do completely understand what women mean when they say they don't get on with other women. I simply don't trust them. I trust men nearly as little, but I've never had a man back stab, bitch, or gossip to the extent that I have experienced with women.

I'll emphasise again, for good measure, that I'm pretty certain it's me that's at fault. And I'll confess that I don't really trust anyone.

[passedgo]

Good god I never saw you as a pushover, how strange.

It might be that women don't like you because of your confidence. I usually precede the word bitch with'insecure'. The two go together.

The truth is that women are morr concerned with being popular than men, that comes before productivity, effectiveness or even morals.