to ask WHY in the name of Gove are teachers striking again?

[loftyclopflop]

DD's school is closing on 1st October because they have chosen to strike. Is it over pay, pensions and conditions? Did they achieve anything by striking a couple of years ago other than massively inconveniencing a lot of parents?

I know Gove is a twat but do they really expect to change anything by taking the day off?

And there you go again... Try A&E on a Friday night! Seriously people do experience violence outside the teaching profession.

Which would be more damaging to children's education; a few single day strikes or continued erosion of the quality of children's education under the government's plans with a work to rule which has no impact on the government because it conveniences no one, but does effect the education the children are receiving day in, day out?
Rip the plaster off quickly in a few days or pick and pull at it for months / years?

erm yes I would like to point out where people said they didn't? this is a thread about teachers - ergo the focus is on, erm, teaching. I don't teach - I have been spat at, hit, threatened with a knife etc - but this is a thread about teachers, strike action and the huge issues with education at the moment - if that's okay?

No one is saying they don't EsTutMirLeid. Just pointing out to the uninitiated that it happens to teachers.

Of course you have to go through a performance management process in other sectors. And would it really be better if you didn't?

If anything, nowadays it's far too easy to get rid of fairly decent teachers if, say, you're also a union rep that bugs the head....

Look, I think much of the public sector is in the (unfair) firing lie. I totally think that they should all be up-in-arms and that they deserve all of the public's support and respect. I would support other areas in a strike action or other forms of protest. But I can only actively act on behalf of my own profession. If people query why we're doing it, I'll explain - we just, at the moment, want to talk - if people then start saying strange 'you have it good' arguments, then I (or other teachers) will try to explain. It doesn't mean that we think we are unique, or superior. or uniquely entitled, but rather that everyone should be treated fairly. Including us.

This argument just wouldn't apply in other areas - you wouldn't say 'yeah, well, why should that kid get to have a nice childhood? Mine was shit and I just put up with it. I know people who's were even worse'. It's just illogical.

Both are damaging.

Again as an NHS worker if I decided to strike or 'work to rule' patients would suffer. Neither is acceptable. But because you are advocating both you lose the sympathy of other professions.

I HATE the brightest and best argument because it's so wrong. If you make teaching a "cushy" well paid profession you get dross. If you like children and want to help you go into teaching whatever the pay. Literally hundreds of graduates are trying to get into teaching mostly as a safe option.

So seriously, you're a top graduate, the world is your oyster and you don't think you would consider earnings and working conditions when choosing your career? Just last week I was talking to a lawyer friend who was telling me how she'd love to retrain to teach. I told her what I earnt as a member of middle management at top of the mainscale. She decided it wasn't a career move she could afford.

I don't think teaching has ever been 'cushy'. I believe the whole 'but it's a vocation' gets used to justify paying nurses peanuts too. I love my job, but if I didn't believe it would pay for a reasonable lifestyle for my family I'd go elsewhere. I don't believe I have the hardest job in the world, in fact I feel privileged to work with the young people I teach. However I am highly skilled, I work extremely hard and I am not prepared to lie down and allow this government to destroy the terms and conditions of my employment.

Oh and by the way, just this week I've had to physicaly restrain someone half again my size (I think in pure muscle!) from going after someone who'd annoyed him.

I managed to keep everyone safe because I could hold him until help came - I'm in my 30s. Were I 60+? not a chance!

Oh well, I give up. Trying to improve things for both teachers and children in the only way the government may listen to will inconvenience people, so let's just give up and lie down.
"What you allow will continue"...

I would support NHS workers striking for a valid reason 100% I am a trades Union member - I think it's a legitimate form of action ...I am also a professional

what is with the competitive misery? Because NHS staff get abused no one else can complain about being abused in the work place ...NO ONE should be abused at work. If your pay is better than other peoples maybe other peoples pay should rise....rather than being told you are well off and shouldn't complain

it's madness and one of the strangest results of the current government - it's OKAY to want better in life you know

Didn't doctors take industrial action over pensions last year?

I don't see why teachers have to be martyrs to the cause because they are public servants.

Teachers pensions and working conditions matter if we are going to get the best people into position.

In my previous career I was paid a six figure salary in order to attract the best graduates. I was paid bonuses, sent on paid for holidays, access to share and discount schemes.

We do not want schools to be full of dreamy types who are happy to work for a few peanuts, so the conditions of service need to be great.

I did not go into teaching immediately because I wanted to earn more money. To be frank I am only a teacher now because my husbands earns enough to top up my salary - and as a senior teacher I earn more than most teachers. That is not to say that teacher's wages are awful but many of us could earn more - and have done.

OK. Lots of graduates think that teaching is a safe "well paid" option compared to the other geography, English lit choices at 23 years old.

I really don't believe anyone can teach. You either have to be very good at whatever you do or you can really like working with children or maybe both.
But actually I know plenty of HLTA and cover supervisors that have been or could be teachers. The crap money is offset by the less stress of the pointless paperwork.
But crap pay or not they do it because they like it and are good at it.

And actually I've worked in a PRU and it's easier because the academic expectations are lower. Although I found several of my pupils good interesting jobs not in plumbing or brickbuilding.

well I guess PRU vary like everything else in life

Add message | Report | Message poster EsTutMirLeid Tue 17-Sep-13 23:08:00
. And please stop assuming that your job is more important than anyone else's and that you are the hardest done by.

Has any teacher said they are the hardest done by? You certainly won't hear me saying that. I am not a martyr and quite frankly too lazy to end up in a job which is the hardest in the world.

Teaching has flashes of time when you have to work incredibly hard. I started this morning at 7am, I gave just finished. I took 2 hours out to make tea and spend time with my children. That is an average working day for me - and it is exhausting , especially right now as I am pregnant. However in return for those hours I get 12 weeks holiday a year and decent pension. I think that is fair.

I helped a PRU with their target setting ... progress VA had to be through the roof, even if attainment wasn't! I wouldn't envy them trying to achieve that!

I suspect most people could teach and do a good enough job to be honest - it is not exactly brain science. The number that can be outstanding and inspirational teachers - who also don't burn out - is much smaller.

Also worth noting that there really aren't 'hundreds' of teachers applying to certain jobs, it's very difficult to recruit English teachers, lots of Canadian teachers are being employed at the moment, which of course puts extra pressure on English departments because they have trained for a completely different system and need lots of additional training in their first year. There is a big shortage of skilled SEN specialists, lots of teachers with these skills have retired recently or are about to retire and there is also a shortage of head-teachers.

I think teaching is a demanding job but it's quite well paid and convenient for a lot of people. I don't think teachers do badly pay and pension wise. But demands of Ofsted and so on well that's a different story. They won't get much public sympathy by striking but I don't expect it's public sympathy they want.

Well said Wonderstuff. I can't remember the research on how many HT posts have to be readvertised or remain unfilled, but it is staggeringly high in every area of the country. Wonder why that is?

I agree it is quite convenient, every night I get home to see my children, that didn't happen in my previous job. At least once a week I can be home by about 4pm. That didn't happen previously . I have 12 weeks a year in which I can totally forget about work and focus on my family, that did not happen in my old job.

We do not want schools to be full of dreamy types who are happy to work for a few peanuts, so the conditions of service need to be great.

Genuine question, Aris: What is the desirable 'type'?

"I have 12 weeks a year in which I can totally forget about work" WOW. Please tell me your secret.

Wonderstuff but you are obviously a great teacher (still enthusiasm in the post). What makes you think your friend would be?
It was just about the money for them.I totally see what you say but don't really understand what you are asking for.