to ask WHY in the name of Gove are teachers striking again?

[loftyclopflop]

DD's school is closing on 1st October because they have chosen to strike. Is it over pay, pensions and conditions? Did they achieve anything by striking a couple of years ago other than massively inconveniencing a lot of parents?

I know Gove is a twat but do they really expect to change anything by taking the day off?

sorry that was from noblegiraffe's union

I have no idea, this kind of the thing is the reason why I cannot join a teaching union. I was about to join ATL when they went and joined in with the last lot of strikes. Striking, imo, is not on and no way to achieve what you want as it just gets everyone's backs up who might otherwise have supported us.

70 hours is a very normal working week for me in termtime. But come the holidays I seriously doubt I average more than 2 hours a day and don't know anybody who does (except NQTS who go through hell but it passes!). Given the amount of holiday I think it averages out to a very ordinary work load.

I know we officially only get paid for term times - but this is just a technicality isn't it! We get paid every month and probably, on average, earn around £30,000 a year. That is a very good full time salary so nothing to complain about there.

I know that teaching is not as good or lucrative a job as it used to be and that we have to work till some of us will be well past it - but isn't that the case for all jobs now? At least for those of us who are lucky enough to have them at all?

Our circumstances may not be ideal but we are so so lucky compared to many (some of whom will have their lives made even harder by teachers who go on strike).

But is that actually working to rule?

Has your school put a limit in their PM/appraisal policy?

EsTut, they may also be saying why they will, in fact, be out there taking a strike day (not everyone in unions strike when one is called).

BUT that is not the reason that the unions involved have called for the strike.

PLEASE let us be involved in the talks/discussion. We, actually, do have relevant input and CARE about student outcomes.

[I have taught for 12 years now and the only time my union in my area called for a strike was when I was on MAT leave, so I've never actually done it before. Hardly 'all the time'.]

22:25, 22:14 two posts within this last hour stating its about pay and conditions.

On top of that we've had posters claiming that life expectancy of teachers is low and therefore pensions and retirement age needs to be addressed.

Are these for the benefit of the children or for yourselves. Be honest. It's perfectly acceptable I want more money, less work, better hours, fewer assessments and observations etc... Don't try and hide it with 'we are striking for the children'.

You can't seem to agree anything at all between you and between you union and that's why I think, on the whole, public opinion of your strike is low.

suffolk - no, I don't actually know about that one and will look into it. Thanks!

manic I think you are short-sighted to not join a union and I really hope that you are never in the position where you need that level of support. In my current school, a colleague was suspended after a totally false allegation was made about him. The HT's knee jerk reaction was to suspend, rather than investigate immediately. The union dealt with it properly and he was reinstated. Another colleague experienced poor health in the first trimester of her 2nd pregnancy. Her union rep was able to support her in meetings where she felt bullied by the HT (different one!) Trade Unions do a lot of good. My dad was on the exec for NASUWT for a number of years and helped no end of people.

Thank you manicinsomniac for you honesty.

In work for the nhs. We have had to put up with the same changes to our pensions etc. we already had a worse pension than teachers and civil servants. We get the least amount of holidays out of everyone in the public sector or at least close to it. get one of the worst maternity packages. Take unpaid leave to go to medical appointments, when our children are sick , when we have to take the day off because teachers are striking, or closing for snow days, have no flexitime. i could go on......
We all work work for the government. Yet we don't feel the need to strike every few months and consistently winge on mumsnet like teacher do!

Is there no way it could be both - pay and conditions for teachers and for the children EsTutMirLeid?
The best teachers won't be recruited and retained without the pay and conditions bit, without the best teachers the children don't get the best education they could have.

NewNameforNewTerm Tosh. If you like children and like to "teach" you will.
Because what else would you do? Nanny, childminder, TA ??

Again with the 70 hour week. What's the problem - that you do it or that you don't get paid for it? I don't think the union has thought it through at all.

But yet you are happy to whinge on Mumsnet, Boadcea. The NHS have carried out a strike more recently than teachers have and I don't see any teachers slagging off medical workers. Charming.

I'd like to be more sympathetic but the strikes during my final year of A levels fucked up my university chances and stalled my career.

Will the government ever give in to strikes??

NewName is correct. If the pay & conditions continue to be eroded, then even fewer people, let alone well-qualified people, will see teaching as a good option. That will impact upon children. It's not just about current teachers throwing their toys out of the pram.

Teaching is a job, like any other. Just because plenty of us love doing it doesn't mean we should be taken advantage of.

Of course it can be about both. But be honest.

Also you must realise that we are all in this position. I work for the NHS. If I hear 'more for less' from management one more time I'm not going to be responsible for what I do. No pay rises, increased hours (at no extra pay) to cover for frozen staff recruitment (because our contracts state we should work the hours necessary to fulfil our role), increased amount of out of hours work so we fulfil a 24-7 role, increased retirement age etc... We are all this situation. Yet teachers feel they are the only ones affected and hard done by. So when it's about your pay, which is considered quite good, when it's about overwork (which is similar to many other professions), when it's about assessments and observations (which in the NHS we are subjected to ALL the time), when it's about lack of holiday (where your profession achieves more holiday than virtually any other, please don't bang on about you're not paid in the holidays when you achieve a monthly salary)... When it's about this you lose our sympathy.

I'd be looking over my shoulder the whole time...expect for the fact it's really hard to get rid of crap teachers unlike most other professions

Under the performance management framework brought in this September heads can get rid of teachers in a matter of weeks.

Why is it tosh to care about myself and the impact the governments policies are having on the children?
Why does liking to teach mean I should just put up with it all and not fight for what I think is right for both myself and the children? I really don't see your argument about what else would I do.
The pay and conditions part of teachers concerns is not about the 70 hour (or what ever we do) week. It is about far more complex issues.

EsTut, I don't believe any teacher on this thread has claimed that government cuts are exclusively affecting teachers. You lose your own argument when you start making sweeping statements like that.

Why do you say teachers think they are the only people affacted? Workers can only take action over their own trade dispute. Teachers can't take action over NHS workers' pay and conditions. Only their own. And that is what some of them are doing.

I don't want my children being taught by 68 year old teacher, I don't want them taught by unqualified teachers. I want the brightest and best graduates to come to teaching. I want the best education not just for my children but for the society in which they are growing up. I'm not convinced the strike will achieve a u turn, but what else can be done?

Pensions have already been reformed, that happened under the last government. Teachers understood the need to do this and there was no industrial action. This attack on our pensions I not justified, but it isn't just about pensions, it's about a total dismantling of our terms and conditions.

A friend recently retired, she told me she thought about working to 65, but found that at 60 she was unable to hear the children at the back of her class, so she went to her GP, got her hearing tested, she was told that it was fine, the loss she had experienced was normal for someone of her age. Teaching is physically demanding.

I don't think that teachers FOR A SECOND believe that they are the only ones that are hard done by.

However, I think that the public would be even more pissed off at us if we went on strike over, say, nurses' pay and conditions!

It is not hard at all to get rid of underperforming teachers. The monitoring period can be as short as 4 weeks. That changed along with the limit on lesson observations...