homeopathy... aibu to say i think of it's a crock of crap?

[ILetHimKeep20Quid]

Was at my brothers for dinner yesterday. My baby has a touch of eczema. As a chronic sufferer myself I roll my eyes whenever people start on the 'oh have you tried this' thing but smile and nod. I have used steroid creams in the past, of various strengths, to deal with outbreaks. I'm well versed in the treatment.

So, the wee touch my ds has isn't concerning me and I'm moisturizing him regularly.

Cue my sil practically gushing over her homeopath (not just a normal one. He's a gp but does this on the side it seems).

I smiled and nodded. Not wanting to get into the whole thing. But she would not give up. So I asked 'what is homeopathy?'

Apparently, get this, water has a memory. What the actual fuck? How can water have a memory?

Homeopathy isn't so harmless when those who believe in it present it as equivalent to conventional medicine and try to influence public policy accordingly (eg re: vaccines).

I was wondering what makes one person's belief in something worthy of protection and another person's belief open to ridicule.

Religion has been the subject of ridicule for ages.

I failed to copy and paste properly this should work

Thank god you think this way, there was a story a while back about an Australian couple who treated thier babys eczema with homeopathy and ignored the doctors, the poor little thing died in agony from cracked and bleeding skin all over it's body for months before infection finally killed it.

They got.charged with negligence/child cruelty I think

ah yes, I have seen it before and tis an awful warning.

looks at time and resolves to log off MN and do some frigging work

"Well curlew, you are just a delight to debate with aren't you? There are studies that show that accupuncture works for certain conditions."

Honestly, there aren't. There were, but they have been superseded. Have a look.

"There are studies that show that accupuncture (sic) works for certain conditions. "

Indeed there are. And for plausible-ish reasons too (or at least, reasons which don't invalidate the entirety of physics and chemistry). Now, could you perhaps tell us what the fuckity fuck acupuncture has to do with homeopathy?

There are always unanswered questions and religion, reiki, homeopathy or star gazing or whatever fill the gaps for people.

There's still a lot to do on science without having to work on any of those, thank you very much.

There were studies, but then there were more studies that said actually, not so much. That is how science works. It alters its viewpoints based on the evidence.

"There are always unanswered questions and religion, reiki, homeopathy or star gazing or whatever fill the gaps for people."

But that's the point. You don't actually need to fill the gaps. They will be filled as science advances,as they have been being filled for years. That's what I meant by science not being finished.

Not sure why you found my post so objectionable.

Lweji there is no evidence that acupuncture works. There is evidence that there is an analgesic effect of acupuncture treatment, and that the effect is larger than the placebo treatments to which it was compared. The big problem is that it is impossible to devise a proper placebo control for acupuncture which neither the patient or therapist can distinguish from the real thing.

oohdaddypig homeopathy has no therapeutic effect at all. There is a placebo effect associated with homeopathic treatment, but that has nothing to do with the homeopathy. There are placebo effects associated with most treatments. About 50% of the effect of common analgesics is placebo, for example. For us to be able to say that a treatment has any effect, we must be able to show that it is more effective than a placebo. Homeopathy is not.

on the whole "science can't explain why" thing being some.kind of mysterious justification, a have no idea how or why a lot of our normal medicines Work, for example paracetamol, lots of theorys but no one actually knows the mechanism it uses to relive pain.

How do homeopaths "cure" diabetes then!

Have you heard about the homeopathic diet?

Just sit and look at an empty plate.

It remembers all the food that has ever been on it!

Sorry posted before finishing,

While we don't know how it works trails prove it.does, homeopathy and most alternative medicine fails this test because.we.dont know.how it works but also tests show it doesn't actually Work to a statistically relevant amount.

The argument.that we don't udnerstand something so reject it is false, in medicine if. Works but you don't know why it's.not that important what's important is.that it works

Phone.and in.gloves so.lots of.typos sorry

Oooh oooh Moutarde doesn't acupuncture work according to the gate control theory?

The thing is, people who like science based outcomes aren't closed minded. I used Chinese medicine for anti-malarials in Africa, because the WHO told me they had good preventative effects and less side effects than Western anti-malarials. After all, alternative medicine that works is called medicine.

I have also tried acupuncture. There is a place near me who did geared to income treatments and I was not working at the time and thought, "what the hey?". It may have worked or the brace and anti-inflammatories did, or time, who knows. I can see that it is possible it could work. The studies are saying not now.

Homeopathy, however is just no better than placebo. There is no mechanism, there is no evidence, it is just not a medicine. It is sugar and water.

Curlew - you just sounded a bit aggressive (maybe it was the punching screen bit). Perhaps you need some homeopathic chamomilla?

I don't agree that science will ever be finished or have all the answers. That's why I love debates like these. And why I like drinking beers with religious scientists.

xkcd.com/808/

There are always unanswered questions and religion, reiki, homeopathy or star gazing or whatever fill the gaps for people.

My God is not a 'God of the gaps'. I don't see science as a challenge to my beliefs either.

But the homeopathic chamomile will be RUINED by water remembering caffeine that's it's been previously pally with.

DropYourSword I think that gate control theory is a little out of date. In any case, there is no need to appeal to it for acupuncture which can be explained by the placebo effect. It is a little unsatisfactory that we conclusively prove that it is just placebo, but when you cannot do double-blind trials you are a bit stuck.

If water has a memory, wouldn't it remember all water born diseases? And why hasn't it won Mastermind?

Only - that's interesting. Genuine question - assuming you are of traditional faith, how does science not cause you such a conflict?

Short answer: because I don't believe that the bible is a science or history book.

Long answer would be too long, but is fun to talk about in the pub!