WIBU to say something to my woo friend?

[trice]

I have a lovely friend. She is older than me and cleverer than me (phd) and enjoys a bit of woo. She became a Buddhist, sees a shaman, puts crystals in her rice to give it energy etc. I am an atheist and a scientist and have always treated all her wackiness as charming eccentricities.

Lately she has been unwell with CFS type symptoms and has been treating this with an extreme exclusion diet. This has been "proscribed" to her by a charlatan who did "hair analysis". She is not allowed meat or dairy, only sea caught fish (certain types only) and non "alkaline" vegetables. She has become extremely underweight and is so lacking in energy she goes to bed frequently during the day. She revisited her health adviser (£500 charge for more hair analysis) who asked her to cut out yet more foods.

I am really worried about her, she won't do traditional medicine as it is not "natural" or I would take her to the doctor, but I think her main problem is that she is starving.

I would like to have her health adviser arrested, I think she is a dangerous quack who is actively harming people.

Would I be unreasonable to just tell my friend that she is being conned? She would probably never speak to me again.

FFS! I'm not woo (but I am religious so maybe you would count that as woo) but this is serious. What's her PhD in? Presumably not any kind of science if she's talking about medicine not being 'natural'.

If it was any friend of mine I would just come straight out with it and say you really need to go to a proper doctor. Would she really never speak to you again??

I'd tell her it's unnatural to not eat enough!

I would definitely say something.

I am as woo as they come. That said, your friend is being taken for a dangerous ride.

(I have a friend who has paid ££££s to do a course during which she was apparently trained how to diagnose and cure people's illnesses by having them hold tiny bottles of water in the air.....)

Getting a PHD doesn't necessarily make you clever. I would be very worried about your friend. I think I would have to try and say something even if it resulted in a coolness.

Agreed, there's a huge element of the whole "culture" surrounding this kind of woo, that it's some special arcane knowledge that others are trying to suppress. It plays on everyone's fears of being proved wrong and laughed at.

Never heard the term woo..

Can you say you're worried about her and persuade her for a second opinion. She doesn't sound very much of a friend if she'd dump you for voicing your (concerned) opinions... I might not use the word 'con' but I certainly try to get her to see that something hasn't been right since she went to see the advisor.

Hair analysis is not new and you can find out a lot about the health of someone by analysing their hair apparently. If your hair is healthy then so is the rest of your body whereas if hair is brittle, thinning, dry, etc then it could be that you have a vitamin or mineral deficiency. I only know this because I was commissioned to write a series of articles on the topic.

I would point out to your friend that if her diet was healthy, it would be showing in her general health by now. Her skin would be softer, her hair would be fuller and more conditioned, her energy levels would be better, etc.

I bet she has other symptoms because of this starvation diet. Go through all her symptoms with her and urge her to consider the fact that this new diet is actually making it worse, not better. Don't dismiss her beliefs or you'll merely get her back up and as a matter of pride, she may refuse to see a doctor. Instead you have to show her beliefs the utmost of respect whilst allowing her to see for herself the harm that this particular type of treatment is doing.

If this particular quack is not benefitting her then suggest she seeks a second opinion as she must realise that not everyone who works in that field is going to be accurate or honest. If she went privately she could have some blood tests done which will outline if she has any deficiencies in her diet. Once those are established she can then speak to a qualified nutrionist who can advise her on which foods would be most beneficial to her.

Hair analysis can only provide a basic overview of your general health, a more detailed overview lies in your blood. And if the health of her hair has got worse (which it will do if she is starving herself) then that is a powerful example you have with which to convince her that her diet is not working.

I am a bit woo around the edges, and believe in the use of complementary medicine. The clue is the word "complementary", it is designed to be used with conventional medicine.

Your friend is in dangerous territory, but I am not sure how you can help her out of it. There are natural methods of helping control symptoms. Maybe you could persuade her to see a woo person with actual qualifications, such as a medically qualified herbalist? If you can, find one with the NIMH qualification, to guarantee that you have a fully qualified herbalist. It may help move her away from the hair-quack to someone who has had some proper training.

Difficult situation! No advice, only that you aren't U for wanting you friend to cease and dissist with the bushit woo and see a doctor.

Oh and your tone is very patronising by the way. People deserve respect and friends more so. Perhaps she refuses to listen to you because your tone betrays your thoughts?

If she has recently been starting to feel fatigued and tired, in the absence of any obvious cause, she needs to see a doctor. She can refuse any medication if she wishes, but at least get a proper diagnosis. Could you approach this as a half-measure - concerned that she's self-diagnosing, rather than self-medicating. (Obviously, fingers crossed that a medical professional encourages her to do the right thing).

Hair is dead cells. Some use in toxicology and looking at past element intake, so used in forensic science, but not useful as a medical diagnostic tool for living patients with other factors to examine.

Tell her you're really concerned about her health and think she should see her doctor. Ask if she'll do it just to humour you, if nothing else works. Offer to go with her, just to listen.

Don't criticise the woo, it will make her instantly defensive. Focus on what else she should be doing. Allow her to find her own explanation as to how the charlatan must have misinterpreted some symptoms or chosen the wrong advice this time.

If you want to report the person (to whom? I imagine they're not in a regulated branch of complimentary medicine. To the police for knowingly harming people?) keep it quiet - for as long as you can.

You have to accept that being honest about your concern because you care about this person may well lose you the friendship. Reporting the charlatan, if an investigation results, certainly will. I think, from what you've said, your concern for her is more important than the benefits you gain from the friendship, so you should talk to her but that's the choice you are making.

If she's so extreme as to put crystals in her rice you're going to have a very hard time getting her to see this charlatan 'health advisor' for what they are...

You say she has CFS - surely this is why she spends a large amount of time in bed? But then you also say she has lost a lot of weight, presumably sufficient that you honestly consider her to be starving?

It's hard without knowing your friend but I think that if she isn't gaining anything from her extreme diet (and it does sound extreme) then perhaps you could suggest she sees a different practitioner, with a different attitude. The one she is seeing now does sound too extreme, if all they are doing is cutting out foods while your friend loses weight.

However, you're not going to get anywhere by suggesting that your friend is being conned. You'd do far better by attempting to be in sympathy with her beliefs, whatever you feel personally, and steer her towards someone else.

Perhaps you could consider buying her a book on CFS (unless she already has them all), one with a dietary leaning - it might give her pause for thought if it goes against the "advice" she's already been given.

I don't agree with hair analysis except as a method of determining toxic influences over the previous 6 months; it's no use for anything immediate or of very recent occurrence, IMO.

Have a word with Trading Standards?

With your friend, have a look to see if the practitioner is registered with the Institute for Completmentary and Natural Medicines which, if he is genuine, he would be. If he's on their list you can report him, if he isn't then this is pretty good evidence that he's not actually genuine otherwise he'd be on the list.

Perhaps try to get her to see that this individual is perhaps barking up the wrong tree rather than try to shake her whole belief system.

Maybe you could say that you wonder if this particular therapy is right for her and her body and suggest an alternative alternative therapy? Or suggest that in both conventional and alternative therapies there are better and worse 'therapists' and perhaps this one doesn't know her stuff as well as perhaps she thinks (while drawing attention to your friends poor state of health).

I am moderately woo, in that I don't think conventional medicine has the answer to everything (PMT anyone? ), but I think what it does best is diagnosis. She has nothing- and no money- to lose from going to her GP to see what kind of tests they suggest running. If she gets a definite diagnosis, that gives her far more info to research, and she could always decide to return to woo treatment.

There's a book called " snake oil" by John diamond, nigella lawsons first husband. He was a columnist for the times, brilliant btw, and died of cancer.

Its about complimentary medicines. And how uncomplimentary they are.

She might like a read, you might have to buy it for her before all her money is gone:(

Ask her to see a doc to- make an informed decision plus see if there is a support group etc on the Internet.

Id guess that going to bed lots throughout the day is a symptom of CFS not woo stuff.

She should just concentrate on cutting out wheat and dairy - that will do tons more good than banning meat and restricting tons of veg.

unfortunately if she is in full command of her faculties there is nothing you can do. She is entitled to refuse treatment and to be so ignorant - she clearly doesn't know how many standard medical remedies come from the 'natural' stuff. Not a science Phd, I take it?

bit harsh, but it is evolution in action.

if you feel she is not mentally competent then it is a different scenario.

It is the lack of a reliable medical diagnosis that is the problem.

I am vegan and Buddhist and have never had more energy in my life, or felt better. It was a "woo" (from your POV) that picked up that I had immune system problems, this was ignored by my GP (turned out I had Lupus).

The symptoms may not be anything to do with her diet, there could be lots of things wrong with her.

You sound patronising and dismissive, which might be blocking her from listening to you.

You need to keep it to a health POV and not an attack on the methods that she has used up to now.

I agree that you should go down the "all medicine" is taken from nature, so what the GP will do for her isn't that far removed from nature.

The Dali Lama addresses modern life and how modern medicine fits in with the Buddhist way of life, could you ignore your contempt enough to try this tactic?

Also does she attend a Buddhist Center? They all normally have a senior type advisor.

Reiki Masters still see their doctors.