Advertised as vegetarian, cooked on the meat grill

[juniper9]

I am a fairly strict vegetarian- I don't eat rennet or gelatine etc.

There's a burger restaurant that I visit fairly frequently which sells a mushroom burger. The menu states it's vegetarian, but I still asked if it was cooked on the same grill as the meat. They reassured me that it's a separate grill.

We moved mouse recently and are now not near the restaurant. A few weeks ago, I went to another branch of the same, small chain. Their menu is slightly different in that they also have Halal meat. I asked the waiter if the burger is cooked on a vegetarian grill. He went off to ask and then said yes. I wasn't massively convinced by him, but he reassured me he'd asked the chef.

When I went back, I asked a different waitress who said the Halal burgers and the vegetarian burgers are cooked together. The burgers are still advertised as vegetarian on the menu. Consequently I ordered a salad.

I emailed them to complain, and the response was basically that the grill gets hot enough to burn off the meat fat, therefore it's fine. The replier said they'd discussed the economics of having three grills and decided against it, so they knew that it might have been an issue.

Obviously everyone has their own version of vegetarianism, but if they're claiming a burger is vegetarian when it's cooked on the meat grill, then surely this is misrepresentation?

Also, if they're so sure that the meat juices are burnt off, then why bother with a separate grill for Halal?

I'm not going to eat a burger cooked in meat fat, but AIBU to think that their menu is misleading? They should let people make their own choice about whether or not they're ok with the burger sharing a grill.

To be fair to OP, I didn't explain in my post - I was surprised she ate in burger restaurants because imo they would be the worst for this. Veggie food is a complete afterthought and I would imagine they took very little care about cross-contamination.

In other restaurants, I wouldn't expect a veggie dish to be cooked on top of the meat, but you do have to expect the same utensils have been used, same oven, etc. I know it's a pita. But I wouldn't expect any veggie meal in a non-veggie restaurant to be 100% veggie. 99.9% in a good place that knows its stuff maybe, but not 100%

have worked in kitchens

ConfusedPixie, that is shocking.

parmesan is vegetarian because they slaughter newly born calves for the rennet. That is worse than cooking a bean burger on a grill used for meat products.

is not*

Surely it's normally entirely reasonable to be offered Parmesan with a vegetable pasta dish. Omnivores order vegetable dishes all the time and might be delighted to have some Parmesan on top.

Unless you had told the waiter as soon as you'd sat down "I am a strict vegetarian by the way" (yes I know you shouldn't have to say "strict" but there's a lot of flaky sort-of-veggies around) in which case that's pretty dense of them, yes.

I don't understand what the difference is between eating eggs, even organic etc has a shed load if dead male chicks, as a result and/or calves, if milk is involved and possible contamination from animal fat, tbh( I do understand the religious difference).

I think that food places should be prosecuted if they lie, but unless they are vegan, there is animal products (aka dead things) involved.

Bread isn't vegan, neither are the sauces etc.

I totally understand wanting to be able to buy food out, the same applies to alcohol and soft drinks, it is impossible to be vegan and have anywhere near a normal social life, unless you live somewhere trendy, or populated by non meat eaters because of religion.

Pasta generally has either eggs or whey in the process? I still don't understand the problem with the cheese, or is it just a case of ignoring what isn't obvious?

There are some cheeses which are always made using animal rennet, for example, Parmesan (Parmigiano Reggiano). In order to be called ‘Parmesan’ this has to be produced according to traditional methods which use calf rennet. The regulations for its production state the following ingredients; cows milk, salt and calf rennet. The milk comes from cows reared in the defined geographical area and the use of the term parmesan as a product description is limited by European Union labelling law to being region specific. Other cheeses which are always made using animal rennet include Grana Padano and Gorgonzola. You can get ‘parmesan style hard cheese’, and variations of others which are suitable for vegetarians.

Rennet contains the enzyme chymosin. Rennet is usually sourced from the abomasum (fourth stomach) of newly-born calves whereby the chymosin aids digestion and absorption of milk, adult cows do not have this enzyme. Chymosin is extracted from slaughtered calves by washing and drying the stomach lining, which is then cut into small pieces and macerated in a solution of boric acid/brine for 4-5 days

I know why cheese isn't vegan, or sometimes vegetarian, but if you eat products with whey, eggs and milk in, what is the difference if something is cooked on a grill that meat has touched?

I don't get "strict vegetarian", I th

Sorry tbh.

Because meat is the dead carcass of a slaughtered animal - it's lives, it's seen the sky (unless its a veal calf or battery hen), its had its throat cut...

Eggs, milks etc are a product of a farming method (that vegans find objectionable).

A 'strict vegetarian' is just a good old vegetarian. These days I hear 'I'm veggie. I'll have the fish, followed by the chicken, with the panna cotta to finish, Extra parmesan please.'

Until there are legal definitions of vegetarian and halal his will always be an issue.

It's crap.

DH uncle is a strict vegetarian.

He will only buy eggs from a certain farm shop, a is very careful about the dairy products he buys.

It wouldn't bother me but I am admittedly a crap vegetarian.

Funny that the Vegetarian Society was founded in 1847. Yes, that was 1847. The vegans only for organised in 1944.

New fangled bloody faddists.

birds I speak as a vegan, not a strict vegetarian, but I imagine the issue is one of sheer repulsion.

If you don't feel that repulsion, or feel meat/cheese to be equally repulsive or whatever, that's fine, but if someone does feel a particular way, then they want to spend their money accordingly.

Fact is, I think it's fairly normal for people to react differently to dead mammals/fish and milk. I'm quite blasé about making my children cheese sandwiches, even if I would never make it myself, and I'm also blasé about clearing up another woman's breast-milk. However, I'd make a terrible pathologist!

Funny that the Vegetarian Society was founded in 1847. Yes, that was 1847. The vegans only for organised in 1944

Buddhism was founded about 2,500 years ago by Shakyamuni

Is that new fangled bloody faddists?

*eat it myself

Absolutely. I meant more as in an actual movement set up for the promotion of vegetarianism/veganism and to educate non veggie/vegan people. Most people bang on as if veggies landed on earth in the 1970s. Mum had a teacher in the 1930s who was a vegan.

Buddhists just get on with it.

YANBU. If it is advertised as vegetarian then it should be, in the same way that if something were advertised as beef then it should be.

The menu wouldn't annoy me so much (I was vegetarian for about 10 years and realised that as people have different definitions it's always best to ask) but the waiter being too lazy to find out the answer to a question or trying to pull a fast one would.

Some of the problems (across the board) will lie with what "vegetarian" means and second guessing about what's appropriate for any particular vegetarian (evoked to support economic/logistical concerns).

1. A vegetarian who is strongly ethically opposed to all meat consumption (because animals shouldn't be killed/eaten) probably won't be eating in a burger restaurant.
2. A vegetarian who eats so because it has apparent health benefits (without getting into the veracity of the claimed benefits) might not care if their mushroom burger has once touched something meaty. I understand this is the primary reason behind vegetarianism, so reasonable for that to be assumed during the cooking process?
3. A vegetarian who doesn't like meat won't want to eat any product cooked in meat juices/fat/ovens but might not be opposed to food outlets designed to sell meat.
4. An environmental vegetarian might be doing their bit to reduce global meat consumption but have no particular ethical issues with the eating of meat in itself (this most accurately describes me) and so probably won't spend too much time thinking about it.
5. An economic vegetarian might not care if someone else is footing the bill.

I appreciate that the only inclusive policy is to maintain strict separation.

CerealMom I'll go to that island with you! We'll have a lovely time eating non cross contaminated food

YANBU, DH is veggie and wouldn't be happy with that. If it says it's veggie, then it should be.
How is it being fussy like some have implied? If you're advertising it as vegetarian then it should be just that - not cooked on meat grills!
As an aside, I don't know whereabouts you are, but if you're anywhere near Scarborough, North Yorkshire, this vegan cafe is AMAZING! Completely vegan and does stuff like sausages and mash, knickerbocker glory and ice cream sundaes.
Went a few weeks ago and it's brilliant. The Facebook page for it has me permanently hungry with all the yummy pics of cake
www.c-a-l-f.com/calf-project/calf-cafe-menu/

YANBU but it doesn't surprise me. Couldn't they cook it on a piece of foil - I've seen that in places where they cook the food in front of you.

I must admit I tend to go for the "what I don't know....." approach when eating out.

Eating out as a vegetarian in this country is still far better than most countries I've been to. In Thailand I just accept that I will probably end up having some fish sauce whatever I ask for. In Malaysia one time when I asked for noodles without chicken they thought I couldn't afford meat and kindly stuck lumps of fat on the top instead. The best was in Morocco when I was excited to be told by the restaurant owner that they could do me a vegetable tajine (stew). When it arrived it was exactly the same as DH's, except with the big lumps of meat taken out. It was in meat gravy with strands of meat in it. Really awkward as the owner was so pleased with himself for having made it.....