To not apologise to dsis who is pregnant?

[waltermittymissus]

Dsis has married a nice enough man from Turkey.

I say nice enough as I don't really know him nor does she and there's a language barrier to prevent any major communication.

She has fallen pregnant after believing until fairly recently that she can't conceive. This is obviously brilliant! I'm thrilled for her.

However, she's having a boy and although she says he won't be raised as Muslim she is having him circumcised.

She knows nothing about it save that that's what her dh wants. I don't agree with it and while I know it's none of my business, she was asking opinions the other day and I told her my honest views.

It wasn't an argument but the conversation did turn a little heated resulting in her storming out.

My mother wants me to apologise, not because I was horrible or anything but because she's pregnant.

I'm not apologising because a) she asked for opinions and then got really defensive b) she's pregnant not sick and c) those are my views. I'm not sorry for them.

So, AIBU?

[beepoff]

Hope you get hold of her OP. good luck.

[waltermittymissus]

No, haven't managed it so I enlisted the help of my mother!

Bought some blue babygros as a peace offering. She's in mum's today and usually I would be too but parties this afternoon!

Mum has spoken to her. She's basically throwing a strop and has said she won't speak to me until I apologise for saying such horrible things?!

I asked what horrible things and was informed that I shouldn't have talked about circumcision in detail (I didn't!) as she didn't want to know the ins and outs.

So now, I'm rather pissed off again to be honest!

[Vivacia]

Could you swallow your pride and apologise without reservation. I think that there's a lot at risk here.

[claraschu]

When I was pregnant, my sister informed me (unasked) that if we circumcised our son she would never speak to me again.

We were never intending to circumcise anyway (hadn't even really considered it as a possibility even though my husband is Jewish and circumcised).

[waltermittymissus]

Well I wouldn't ever say I'd never speak to her again, that's more extreme than anything I would or did say.

Vivacia no, I'm afraid I won't be doing that. Firstly, I haven't done what she said I did. Secondly, if she doesn't want to hear the details, why on earth would she have it done???

[Vivacia]

I am with you 100% walter. I agree that circumcision is wrong. I agree that your sister should inform herself about things that will be done to her child. I agree that the power in their relationship is wrong.

However, from what you've said I would be seriously worried that your sister is getting in to an abusive relationship with this man. I would feel that this man is coming between me and my sister. And he'll try to come between me and my niece/nephew. I'd be fighting him at his own fucking game and in this for the long haul.

[waltermittymissus]

Hmm, I see your point Vivacia - and actually, I think the cracks are already starting to show with other people in my family.

My mum told me that she asked dsis to hang on to hers and dn's passports when they go over there.

She doesn't trust him either.

[Vivacia]

Any change today?

[waltermittymissus]

She never turned up to mum's so parents are driving over this evening.

This is insane and seems to have spiralled out of hand really quickly!

[Gingerandcocoa]

OP, I must say I agree with Vivacia. There are times when it's much, much less important to be right than to do the right thing. And the right thing here seems to be for you to get closer to your sister, so you can help her. I cannot imagine how angry you must be, but she's your sister and it sounds like she's being dominated by this horrible man and really needs your help (even though she doesn't know/accept it yet).

[Vivacia]

Are things out of control? I hope it's just a misunderstanding over times or one of those days when you're running behind or... I'm clutching at straws.

[waltermittymissus]

What I mean is, it's gone from a difference of opinion to her not speaking to me, him telling me what to do and my mum panicking about her moving to Turkey!

It's just overwhelming!

I've texted again (because she won't pick up!) and asked her to phone me. I said I want to sort things out and I respect that this is her child and therefore, her decision! Here's hoping it's enough to get through.

[Gingerandcocoa]

OP if an apology is what is going to take to get her to speak to you, please consider apologising. You're ABSOLUTELY NBU in not wanting to apologise, but I think this is potentially much more serious than you previously imagined.

If your sister is potentially being manipulated by this man, you really can't expect her to be reasonable in any way...

I really hope this isn't as bad as it looks though, and that things will turn out ok for you and most of all for her and her unborn baby.

[Vivacia]

That's what I was driving at. Your parents and perhaps you are suspecting the worst, but it could be down to something simple such as she's left her phone in the car.

[waltermittymissus]

Text from him:

We will contact you when we've made our decision.

What. The. Fuck?

[Vivacia]

Is there any where you can bump in to her or blatantly track her down?

[Vivacia]

And have you heard how your mum's got on with driving over there?

[waltermittymissus]

I'm going to go to her job on Monday.

This is ridiculous.

Can't get h

[waltermittymissus]

Oops!

Can't get hold of mum.

[waltermittymissus]

Mum and dad have been in to chat to her.

They just said they didn't want to get involved in fights between siblings but that they don't think we should be falling out.

Said he was very polite, offering tea etc...

In the meantime, he's texting me telling me they haven't decided yet?!

Anyway, I think I should leave it there for now. She's speaking to parents which is good and as much as I am worried and want to be there for her, I'm not going to play his little game!

[hermioneweasley]

What is her husband's background?

• is he from a city or a small town or a village?
• is he educated?
• are any if the women in his family educated? Do the women wear a headscarf?
• is he turkish or Kurdish?

[waltermittymissus]

He's from a very small village which doesn't look very affluent!

He went to school but not third level.

His younger sister is in school, not sure about the older one but I think she works.

His older family members definitely were headscarves. Not sure about the younger ones. Though one of the original bridesmaids wasn't allowed to be bridesmaid on the day because of the dress she wore the night before!

They're Kurdish.

[Inertia]

Crikey, this sounds like a scary situation for your sister to be getting into. He is forcing decisions about their child onto her, and he is trying to cut her off from her family. TBH this has moved way beyond rational responses.

I think it's a really good thing that you gave her your honest opinion about circumcision- it may have at least planted the seeds of doubt in her mind, and it might open her eyes to the fact that her husband's views are not the only valid ones. To be honest I'm astounded that she expected everyone to be singing the praises of genital mutilation of a small child, and I'm even more amazed that you are getting the blame for telling her what circumcision actually involves! It's not as if you've invented the practice FFS, it's what her and her husband want! If it upsets her to hear the details of what happens, then how the hell is she going to cope when they actually start chopping off bits of her baby?

Is it definitely her insisting on the apology, or is her husband giving out some shit about you disrespecting him or his culture ?

[hermioneweasley]

Oh dear, that doesn't sound good. At all.

The Kurds tend to be more religious, conservative, less educated and the women much less powerful than in Turkish families. For example, any "honour killings" I have ever heard about in Turkey or among "Turks" in the UK are actually Kurds. I am aware that this sounds racist, but it is a reality that the ethnic Kurds have a very different culture to Turks.

Does the husband have a job or assets or anything in Ireland which would make him want to bring his family back here?