To not apologise to dsis who is pregnant?

[waltermittymissus]

Dsis has married a nice enough man from Turkey.

I say nice enough as I don't really know him nor does she and there's a language barrier to prevent any major communication.

She has fallen pregnant after believing until fairly recently that she can't conceive. This is obviously brilliant! I'm thrilled for her.

However, she's having a boy and although she says he won't be raised as Muslim she is having him circumcised.

She knows nothing about it save that that's what her dh wants. I don't agree with it and while I know it's none of my business, she was asking opinions the other day and I told her my honest views.

It wasn't an argument but the conversation did turn a little heated resulting in her storming out.

My mother wants me to apologise, not because I was horrible or anything but because she's pregnant.

I'm not apologising because a) she asked for opinions and then got really defensive b) she's pregnant not sick and c) those are my views. I'm not sorry for them.

So, AIBU?

[Jolleigh]

I wouldn't apologise. But I'm a stubborn cow and have previously gone 6 months without talking to a family member rather than offer a token non-apology.

Maybe if she's toward the end of the pregnancy, buy the little one something nice, give to your sis with a cuddle, don't say a word. An amicable stalemate will let her know not to ask opinions on a subject when she can't handle them.

I'm pregnant and would definitely know if I was being apologised to genuinly or simply because hormones apparently stop me from being an adult and capable of hearing what needs to be said.

[waltermittymissus]

Thank you all for your comments.

mrsjay you're right, I don't want her isolated, especially in view of his seeming rather dominant.

broken I too have friends who have opted not to have their boys circumcised and whilst I understand it's importance in Islam, it hasn't bothered their husbands!

They're not devout Muslims but then, neither does BIL seem to be!

[PaperSeagull]

I wouldn't include that last sentence. In fact, I probably wouldn't phrase it as you did. I would probably say something more along the lines of, "I'm sorry if what I said upset you. That was never my intention." If you give a "sorry, but" sort of apology, it can sometimes be worse than no apology at all. But if you are sorry for upsetting her, albeit inadvertently (which is the truth, right?), then say so. It doesn't mean you are compromising your beliefs in any way.

[SamG76]

WMM - my only issue with your apology it that it suggests she hasn't already looked into it, which suggests you believe she does things unthinkingly.

I'd be offended if someone had asked whether I'd "looked into" anything I said I'd do. It sounds as if you're saying she'll be a crap mum. And even if she hasn't looked into it, but has trusted her husband, it may be a bad idea in terms of their relationship to back out of it now.

[waltermittymissus]

Sorry lots of x posts!

They are apparently only travelling there for the circumcision and it won't be done for 'a few years' which, I believe, is a tradition. Makes it all the more horrific IMO.

They will, however, travel after baby is born to visit with his family so I don't know what way he'll come back!

He tends to be pushy for them to move there but so far she's refused.

I feel uncomfortable if I'm brutally honest. There were very few of us at her wedding (big family) because they picked high season in Turkey and people just couldn't afford it.

There was NO compromise. It was on that date and that was final, even though she'd have had at least 12 more family members there if they'd waited a few months.

Also, there's been no talk of any sort of celebration here with her family that missed out. And they wouldn't even consider being married here as his family wouldn't like it.

[waltermittymissus]

But if you are sorry for upsetting her, albeit inadvertently (which is the truth, right?)

I don't know to be brutally honest. I don't like to see her upset because she's my sister but she has form for being "upset" if things aren't going her way.

Sam I take your point but the truth is she knows nothing about Islam. Seriously. Nothing. And she knows nothing about circumcision or how it will be carried out in Turkey.

That's not me trying to be offensive. It's just a fact.

And I don't think she should be mutilating her own baby on the say so of a man she's been married to for three months and only really known about six!*

• I say this because their relationship was mostly carried out via Skype and her visiting Turkey three times for two week stints.

[MortifiedAdams]

At your last few comments id be wary of the baby actually being taken to the dads home country

[waltermittymissus]

At your last few comments id be wary of the baby actually being taken to the dads home country

My parents are terrified they won't come back

[YourHandInMyHand]

My step mum was married to a turkish guy before she married my dad and he told her if they'd had a son he'd have taken him back home with him and kept him but that he wasn't bothered about their child seeing as they had a girl.

I would make sure your sister knows you will support her if she needs you, I understand the fiery sibling relationship can make that hard but I'd look to the future and be aware things may well go tits up.

[MortifiedAdams]

It is a scary time.

All the more reason for you to have a bit of humble pie, just to keep that link with her. Agree she needs to read up.on the topic, but she still has time to decide.

[PaperSeagull]

Well, if you really aren't sorry you upset her, I would say don't bother to offer an apology. An insincere apology, or one that sounds more like "You're wrong and I'm right" couldn't possibly improve your relationship with your sister.

[SamG76]

WMM - so either they split up in the next few years, in which case presumably she will forget the Islamic stuff, and it won't be an issue, or they will still be together at that time, in which case the marriage will have "proved itself" and she will have had time to look into it. In either case, I don't think there's any benefit in falling out over it now...

[kilmuir]

Its an horrific thing to do. You should educate her if she doesn't seem to know much about it. It is her child too not just husbands, why does he get final say.

[waltermittymissus]

why does he get final say

Why, indeed!

Paper don't get me wrong, I don't like to think of her as upset...it's just, if she was really, truly happy with her decision would it bother her so much, to the point of storming out, when faced with a negative reaction?

Incidentally nobody is happy about it but they'd rather discuss it behind her back!

I've sent the text but omitted the last part. Just said, please make sure you're happy to do this.

[PaperSeagull]

Well, she might be upset even if she is very happy with her decision, depending on how the conversation went. I have been in situations when family members have clearly disapproved of some decision I've made (not related to circumcision!), and I have felt hurt and upset by the way they expressed their disapproval even though I know the choice was right for me. Family relationships are so damned complicated! :)

[lljkk]

It depends exactly what OP said.
I wouldn't have got into an argument with my sis about it.
The sis doesn't mind, that's different from her having no say.

[waltermittymissus]

The sis doesn't mind

She doesn't know anything about it. From what she was saying there had been no discussion. He said that his son was being circumcised and that was it.

She asked what people thought. I told her I don't like it. She asked why, I told her.

[lljkk]

It sounds like the circumcision might be the least of her ill-informed decisions.

[waltermittymissus]

Well, quite. We're not supposed to talk about it though.

I've bitten my lip so much by now that I'm surprised it's still attached. She's an adult who is perfectly entitled to make her own decisions, good or bad.

But I draw the line at keeping shtum about genital mutilation of children who aren't given a choice!

[Retroformica]

Don't apologise but do chat to her

[lljkk]

I humbly submit that choosing a father for her child who she doesn't know well, can't easily communicate with, and whose cultural expectations she doesn't being to understand, might have much greater life long impacts on the poor boy than the appearance of his penis.

But I get that it's just a generally awkward situation.

[waltermittymissus]

I humbly submit that choosing a father for her child who she doesn't know well, can't easily communicate with, and whose cultural expectations she doesn't being to understand, might have much greater life long impacts on the poor boy than the appearance of his penis

Completely agree and have said as much! This is the first time my mother has specifically asked me to apologise though!

No reply to text!

[waltermittymissus]

Got a reply from BIL telling me not to contact my sister again until I'm ready to apologise and support their decision.

I said that if my sister wants to stop contact then SHE can tell me, not him.

He responded along the lines of: she's my wife so I can speak for her.

I replied with: she's been my sister a hell of a lot longer than she's been your wife so she can speak to me herself.

She won't answer her phone.

[MortifiedAdams]

This is quite scary.

He is isolating her.

[waltermittymissus]

Maybe she was more upset than I realised and he's trying to protect her.