To not apologise to dsis who is pregnant?

[waltermittymissus]

Dsis has married a nice enough man from Turkey.

I say nice enough as I don't really know him nor does she and there's a language barrier to prevent any major communication.

She has fallen pregnant after believing until fairly recently that she can't conceive. This is obviously brilliant! I'm thrilled for her.

However, she's having a boy and although she says he won't be raised as Muslim she is having him circumcised.

She knows nothing about it save that that's what her dh wants. I don't agree with it and while I know it's none of my business, she was asking opinions the other day and I told her my honest views.

It wasn't an argument but the conversation did turn a little heated resulting in her storming out.

My mother wants me to apologise, not because I was horrible or anything but because she's pregnant.

I'm not apologising because a) she asked for opinions and then got really defensive b) she's pregnant not sick and c) those are my views. I'm not sorry for them.

So, AIBU?

[quoteunquote]

Don't let him isolate her, look at the long term,

support their decision

Their? and interesting demand that you must support,

Just offer an apology for upsetting her, but state that you will have to agree to disagree on the chopping bits off babies circumcision.

[waltermittymissus]

I've text her again saying:

XXXX I realise you must be upset since I haven't heard back from you. I don't want to fall out with you over this. It's something we disagree on, let's just leave it at that. Please let me know that you're ok.

[Larrygogan]

Jesus, OP, circumcision is looking more and more like a minor aspect of a problematic marriage to a domineering man. Do you think your sister overreacted to your view on circumcision because she is feeling shaky about her marriage? From what you say, she barely knows him.

[Mumsyblouse]

It's a shame that this issue of circumcision was allowed to escalate really at this particular time, because there can't be any agreement and it's not even happening right now- I have a friend who circumcised all of her boys, I don't agree with it, but we don't discuss it as it is entirely up to her and her husband what she does with her own family. I think you did the right thing by texting her and offering the hand of friendship. Her husband does indeed sound like he's pretty controlling and trying to establish himself as the head of the household from the off, and she will need your support in the future if this is the case. Try not to let a disagreement over a cultural practice be the focus of all this- if you can maintain some contact with her (not through him, the twat), it would be so much better.

[mrsjay]

OH walter I hope she is alright he sounds a complete and utter tosser and she sounds as if she has given him control already (or he has taken it) and the baby isn't even here yet

[waltermittymissus]

I'd put money on her reaction being because she hasn't really had a say one way or the other.

In a way, it does pale in comparison to what could be going on here but I think it's a pretty good example of her handing over control of her life to this man.

The truth is, she doesn't know him well. How can she?!

She said once before that he's 'traditional'. Read: controlling and misogynistic!

God, when I think of some examples even before he came here...her nearly starving herself in the lead up to trips to see him because "he'll go mad when he sees how much weight I've put on" and when discussing how lovely her hair had been when it was short "I can't go over there with short hair, he'll be furious"

I pulled her up on it every time. And I always misunderstood or took her up wrong?!

Perhaps this is why she turned so hostile when discussing the circumcision. I'm the one who causes 'problems' at every turn by questioning things or pointing out that they're not ok.

[beepoff]

Oh god this is really upsetting. I would arrange to meet your sister alone so you can "apologise properly" and make it up to her, maybe take her for tea and cake, as an excuse to have a proper chat to her about what's going on. This does not sound healthy or right at all.

FWIW I think you did exactly the right thing in telling her what you think of circumcision.

[beepoff]

Just to add the proper chat should be focused on getting her to open up rather than you firing in with a list of everything that's wrong with her DH tempting though it is

[mrsjay]

I am not sure what you should do then if he has always been like this should you just put up and shut up or keep shouting from the roof tops how controlling he is , it is her husband and all that but she can't think how he is behaving is ok or she maybe thinks he is manly and macho and just taking care of her, what a terrible position for a sister to be in to look at a loved one and see how wrong it all is

[AwayWithTheFay]

YANBU OP your sis asked for your opinion and you gave it. I wouldn't be saying sorry but I suppose thats because I don't believe in circumcision either.
Maybe take her out alone (for tea and cake like Beepoff said) and ask her if that is what she wants. If it is then be supportive.

[DameDeepRedBetty]

[geekgal]

Whoa, only just saw the answer now, sounds very scary, what does your mum think of this? I'd be more concerned for her well being than you apologising if I were her, this really doesn't sound right at all!

[mrsjay]

I think what beepoff said was a great idea give it a few days see if the dust settles and then take her out and listen to her you still do not need to agree with her or him it is him that wants you too agree , and just let her chat, women in abusive relationships do not want people telling them how wrong their men because it reflects on the woman if that makes sense,

[kiriwawa]

This isn't sounding at all good :(

Do your parents/other members of your family get to see her without her husband?

[lottiegarbanzo]

I'd have got extra cross if people had felt the need to patronise me with insincere agreement and apologising just because I was pregnant.

[waltermittymissus]

Thank you for the suggestions. I definitely think taking her out away from him is a good idea and I'll try it!

This text is the first time he's shown his hand so to speak, she's always been the one to speak up but it was never convincingly her opinion IYSWIM.

However, in light of the text and my suspicions I think I should put it to rest right now and just try to get her talking to see if she's ok. I will enlist my other sisters too.

Up to this point everyone has been silently worried but he's very polite and 'nice'. It's so difficult, the language barrier really does mean that we can't know him properly, he generally doesn't speak around us!

My mother and father are worried sick so they're staying quiet which, if you've ever seen a thread from me about my mother, is extremely unusual! She's not usually shy about forcefully criticising us or our choices!

After dsis left the other day I asked my mum why she wasn't opening her bloody mouth!

She's so scared they'll move to Turkey that she's keeping her head down in the hopes that if the boat isn't rocked, he won't convince her to move.

[kiriwawa]

It sounds like your mother's perspective is entirely coloured by anxiety that she/you/the family will alienate your sister's husband and then he will shut the door on the lot of you.

The afternoon tea is a good idea. Keeping lines of communication open and making it clear you're on her side is crucial (although if you've always had a tempestuous relationship, it may not be you she chooses to confide in)

[waltermittymissus]

although if you've always had a tempestuous relationship, it may not be you she chooses to confide in

No it won't be, I'm sure. But she's much closer to my other dsis so I'll bring her along in the hopes that she will confide in her.

Try as I might, I can't think of a single time that she's been without him since he got here. That's weird, isn't it?

[samandi]

He doesn't sound "nice enough" to me

[kiriwawa]

Not ever seeing her on her own may or may not be weird depending on how often you see her. I rarely see one of my sisters without her husband because we live a long way apart and only tend to see one another at family gatherings. We do talk on the phone when she's not with him though. It's the supervising her phone that makes me very uncomfortable here

[SooticaTheWitchesCat]

I think you really need to see her, apologise (even if you think you were right) and try to get past this issue. It really is her and her husband's decision and millions of children are circumcised so it's not such an unusual thing, whether people like it or not.

If she is in a difficult relationship then she will want to know her family are on her side should she ever need them, especially with a new baby on the way. If you can let her know you are there for her she is more likely to to to you if things go wrong later. If all everyone does is criticise her husband she will just be defensive and not want to talk to anyone.

[AlansCatalanCat]

People need to understand that "sorry" is not confined to apology.

An apology is saying sorry after you have done something wrong. OP has not done anything wrong, so she has nothing to apologise for.

However we also say "sorry" when expressing regret which is NOT the same as apologising.

So I agree that OP can go ahead and say "I'm sorry that you were upset by my views". This is not an admission that she is in the wrong, so I'd go ahead on those lines. If they take it as an apology, no matter, you know what you mean. I would be very worried about sister and would feel I needed to stay onside for her.

[waltermittymissus]

Absolute radio silence despite several attempts to contact her, including standing at her front door for bloody ages!

[alwaysontop]

YANBU she asked

[alwaysontop]

Sorry just read full thread - hope you can get hold of your sister as it sounds like she needs you good luck