AIBU to not be impressed by the Educating Yorkshire head?

[WetGrass]

I find there is something of the Victorian philanthropist in his attitude to his students.

When he says "The most important part of my job is that these students come out as decent human beings" - is it just me that hears the echo of "God bless their blighted little souls - 'cos there's little else they've got to aspire to".

I'd be hopping mad if my child's head teacher was trying to effectively proxy parent them. I think most on this forum would be the same judging by the threads about "My DC isn't getting challenging enough work in class/isn't getting support with their SN/ isn't being offered the course options they need to go to college".

Schools are dreadful places to learn to be a good human being. Unless you're being groomed for a life behind bars - most people's adult life does not feature being trapped in an institution, being goaded by bullies. However - they are the best chance most of us have to step up into a good professional life path.

I thought it was disgraceful to have the quiet, bullied kid Jac-Henry labelled as 'prone to violent outbursts' - particularly on a day he was sitting a module exam. He clearly just wanted to get his head down and study hard. The headteacher was pushing an agenda of character correction ahead of an agenda of academic achievement.

There is a (lengthy) thread about this already on AIBU but I would agree, the episode was one I watched with my 12yr old son and we were both surprised by the course of action the head took. However, its a telly programme and obviously we were shown a snippet

Ah - I'm behind the curve on iPlayer!

So the head should just drop the 'agenda of character correction' and ignore all behaviour issues, so let the bullies carry on bullying, and let Jac carry on punching them? I'm sure that would do wonders for academic standards...

I don't really agree with you. Many children are not as lucky as yours to have parents who care enough to parent them and require 'proxy parenting' I see it in my school all the time.
The incident with Jac was not perhaps handled as well as it might have been but the staff didn't have all the facts we did. The girl lied to them.
Also you must remember this has been edited for TV. We know very little about the background of these children or any previous incidents.

Learning to deal with bullies is as very important life lesson. Bullies exist in all walks of life and all professions. You may not be 'trapped' in an institution with them but you may end up working for one and walking out of a job is not something many of us can afford to do.

Hasn't the school improved since he took over? Obviously he must be doing something right.

I'd be hopping mad if my child's head teacher was trying to effectively proxy parent them.

Your child is lucky enough to have effective parents. Many don't, and school has to take on the role because no one else will.

You say Jac Henry wasn't prone to violent outbursts...yet he still attacked two different children. You say he was quiet and just wanted to study...on another thread, someone claiming to know him said he wasn't a complete angel and the show was edited to give a picture of good kid bad kid. Whether that is true or not, it is worth remembering not to believe everything you see. And remember the teachers know the kids far better than you from your casual viewing.

The schools main role should be to give their kids aspirations - and the routemap to get there.

I think it is a waste of time to work so hard at teaching people coping skills for a school - if you can just give them an escape hatch into a place where they will naturally thrive more.

The best secondary school I visited had a draconian policy of 'trouble doesn't cross the threshold'. It was in a tough inner city location - but kept a very orderly ship. These guys were just firefighting the consequences of having let the big Y11 personalities too much influence.

P.s. I think Jac probably had perfectly functional parents who wanted him to get an education without disruption. Georgia clearly came from a tricky background - but he was getting nowhere with her - since she wasn't motivated for change.

Focus on character correction: FAIL & FAIL.

I think both of those kids would have responded better to being re-focused on their future ambitions- and being protected from being over-influenced by their peers.

How bloody patronising that the only hook they had on Georgia was her prom.

I think the head is fantastic but I know I'm unpopular in my view

Thornhill is within travelling for my dd and we looked at the school last year when we were choosing schools

He has a no nonsense approach but has inherited the yr11s

His approach with the lower school and the behaviour etc is different because the expectations are set from day 1

He makes no bones about the fact he is very hands on with the students and uses his senior leadership team to do the management that takes a lot of heads away from the students

I would like to see the same documentary in 5 years time to see the longer term effects of his headship

I think the head is great! He is approachable, fair, takes no shit and wants the best for his pupils. Of course he wants them to leave school as decent human beings.

I am glad he didn't let that girl go to the prom, she was a blooming nightmare.

How bloody patronising that the only hook they had on Georgia was her prom.

I take it you've never worked with that sort of teenaged girl. They don't give a shit about future job prospects (indeed I understand Georgia is now pregnant, delaying that decision for a while) but they do very much give a shit about getting dressed up and getting out of a limo in front of everyone.

I think its probably hard to refocus someone on their ambitions when they themselves don't give a shit about education and their parents reinforce that at home. Look at Georgia. Three of her sisters expelled and mutterings about her mum coming in to shout at the headteacher. It doesn't paint the picture of a home where education and ambition is respected or something to enjoy. How do teachers and schools fight that?

I agree, the head is appalling. He makes the classic mistake made by all leaders in schools where bullying is rife, of punishing the retaliator not the bully.

When he said, 'Yes he's bullied but he can't hit people,' my jaw dropped. 'Yes he's bullied'? So casual, so accepting? He didn't care, was unmotivated.

It was heartbreaking to see Jac-Henry's gorgeous friends and that teacher with the beard all able to see the blatant injustice of the man and powerless to do anything about it.

Jac-Henry would be thriving at a good school. Instead, he has to fend for himself in a zoo. Anyone who can't see the cause and effect in this is too stupid or blinkered to run such a school well.

DS1, DS2 and I all watched this separately form each other. I asked both of them what they thought of the episode and they both agreed too. the head was at fault. J-H shouldn't be punished for fending for himself in a hostile environment where he is unprotected by staff and routinely bullied, especially during stressful exam times.

I've asked this on another thread and got no answers, but how can you formulate a school policy on violence that includes some students being allowed to give other students a black eye?
Violence is unacceptable unless the kid doing the hitting is a "good kid"?
Violence is unacceptable unless the kid doing the hitting had just had his mum insulted?
Violence is unacceptable unless the kid doing the hitting is under a lot of stress?
What threshold of bullying makes violence acceptable?

Yes, Jac was being bullied, and in the incident with Georgia, she apparently got away with it that time. In the second incident, when Jac was excluded for three days, I think the voiceover said that the other two boys involved in the incident were also excluded, so the head was tackling the bullies too.

I feel sorry for Jac in that he was obviously being verbally provoked, but both times he admitted that he was the one who turned things physical and struck the first blow. That is just not acceptable. What would we all say if someone posted on AIBU - "someone keeps on winding me up so I hit him/her" - does that make it OK? Jac had to be punished too.

When we were watching the programme my son (12) was pretty vocal about jacs punishment for retaliating saying that he thought it was really unfair. I asked him what he thought would happen if I behaved like that now, as an adult and he agreed that it would end in me getting arrested.

That said, my son was bullied for a few years and I have to admit that by last year when it carried over into secondary school I really was on the brink of telling ds to hit back and sod the consequences if it meant that there was a chance that it would just stop my ds being so fearful of being somewhere he should have felt safe.

Giraffe I think if there had been a tougher line on bullying - then the violence would not have occurred.

IMO the teachers were as much to blame for people being hit as J-H was.

The way that I as a parent will take responsibility if I let my children's behaviour escalate to the point that someone lashes out.

Even with tough lines on bullying, bullying still occurs. Anyone who says that a school can be bullying free if only the teachers would do their jobs properly is in cloud-cuckoo land.

noble, agree you can't have a school rule that violence is wrong unless you are being bullied, but the head should have punished the bullies and tackled the bullying. He should have dealt with the root cause, not just the symptoms.

I have got to say,i dont like a Headmaster/Mistress saying "HI YA" and "SEE YA" to his/her pupils.
. Call me old fashioned, but i think a head should not be seen as a friend or someone you can speak to in casual
language.

As for jac who was builed by the horrible Georgia, surely anyone has a right to defend themselves from that level of abuse.

The head is hoping he might get asked on "CELEBRITY BIG BROTHER" pathetic, nothing good has come out of this program for Thornhill.

I don't know - it's an advert for home-schooling if I ever saw one.

'Learn to get along with all kinds of people' - my arse.

Georgia and Jac have no argument - they'd get on just great if they were working side by side. The problem is in the pressure cooker environment with a gang of mates egging you on.

Since the bullying was referred to by Jac, Georgia, Jac's friends and several teachers - it was obviously systematic and known about.

And I loop back to the point: the head-teacher lost sight of the fact that Jac's exam results were more important than his (apparent) anger management problem.

To behave otherwise just exposes his underlying belief that his kids have no prospects.

It's the friendly face of chucking kids on the scrap heap.

www.robert-kelsey.co.uk/blog/2013/09/educating-yorkshire-and-everywhere-else-on-responding-wel.html

Blog post here on why Jac Henry will do well out of this incident

I hope that somewhere along the line someone is say to Jac-Henry that he had every right to be angry and that the bullying he experienced was unacceptable as well as his physical aggression.

It isn't OK for him to lash out because he was bullied, because he is normally good or because he's experiencing exam stress. it was appropriate to punish him for using his hands against another pupil.

However, he should also have seen the bullying and the physical aggression used by Georgia punished. She may have lied to staff about what she called his mother but she admitted stamping on his head so it was clear to all concerned that her actions were not solely self-defence.

The fact that Georgia was a lost cause in terms of behaviour management doesn't excuse allowing her to go unpunished. Sanctions need to be imposed consistently and fairly to retain the respect of all pupils.

Jac was unfairly victim blamed And if he had an anger management problem he would have "lost it" when told he had to do the anger management course.

That counsellor gaslighted him asking him to "own anger" that he didnt have. She was abusive.

She said she might have stamped on his head but he did not look like a boy who had had his head stamped on. I thought it was concluded the head stamping didn't happen, unlike with the the lad later who had the shiner courtesy of Jac-Henry. All this 'victim blaming' and 'gas lighting' is ignoring the fact that he undeniably physically attacked two different pupils in two separate incidents.
Physical violence cannot be tolerated in a secondary school. That way madness lies. People here are looking at it like a parent. You have to look at it like the manager of over 700 pupils trying to prevent Lord of the Flies from breaking out.

Darkesteyes people with anger management problems don't lose it all the time. In fact pupils with anger management issues can be quite calm and reasonable in discussions about their behaviour.