To not get why people hate Dubai so much?

[Cutitup]

What is there to hate?

I think it's a great place to have a holiday. Great restaurants, great service, fab shopping and spa treatments.

I do understand the problems of domestic and construction staff being exploited but this is not a problem unique to Dubai. I just don't get the vitriol, the 'it has no culture' etc.. I say get out of the bitter farm and play with the hay!

[babydubai]

BlingBang - not every Emirati is rich and living off the migrant population. Even in Dubai. Depends which family you belong to, etc. I have seen plenty Emiratis at their wits end because they cannot afford even basic services or rent.

[OliviaMMumsnet]

Friday night link to our talk guidelines
Peace and love MNErs

[Portofino]

You do know I work in Brussels for an large organisation focussing on Corporate Social Responsibility? "Walking the supply chain" we call it.

[Portofino]

For example looking at where slave labour is used, looking at where children are employed, that sort of stuff.....

[theodorakisses]

Funnily enough I don't know much about people inside a computer. Good for you for doing something rather than bellyaching from Sutton. Still, loads and loads of corporations have appalling records, you cannot possibly be saying that the Emirates are the worst. What about US companies? What about Apple etc.

[LtEveDallas]

All those posters that like Dubai - can I ask, are you white?

My friend lives and works in Dubai. The package he was offered for his 3 year contract was very good, and allowed for flights for his wife and 2 children 4 times a year.

He's been gone over a year now, and she (and the children) have been ONCE.

She is mixed race black/Asian and obviously the children are mixed race. Husband is white. They were all treated terribly one their one and only family visit. It was so bad that despite being booked for 3 weeks, she left after 10 days when my friend paid to change the tickets. My friend has since tried to return to UK, because his wife refuses to join him again in Dubai, but unfortunately the financial penalty for him breaking his contract is too much for them.

She was abused, her children were 'shunned' and my friend was told that black women were 'useful but not for marriage'

I've never been to Dubai, never had the urge, but I would be interested to hear if my friends experience is unusual, or is Dubai particularly racist? I have no preconceived ideas, but was extremely shocked by this story.

[Portofino]

I can link to some white papers outlining how western companies can best balance their commercial pressures with avoiding sweatshops and ensuring an ethical relationship with their 3rd world suppliers if you like? But heck, it IS Friday and I have wine.

[Portofino]

Ah - the US now. We have moved on from Bangladesh at least....I'm off to take my dd to bed and enjoy the weekend.

[theodorakisses]

CSR is a massive part of my job in the oil and gas industry here, including our latest outsource projects. You can't just hate an entire nation because they happen to have oil and money.

[theodorakisses]

Me too, this has been a tedious and silly day and I am out of here.

[ubik]

Dubai is crap

You can't even shag on the beach

[HeadsDownThumbsUp]

"you cannot possibly be saying that the Emirates are the worst. What about US companies? What about Apple etc."

Theodora, you're kind of missing the point here. Yes, there are lots of companies with unethical supply practises - and unfortunately there are subject to many commercial pressures which made improving pay and conditions difficult (not least shareholder resistance, as well as consumer demands).

But this thread is specifically about why many people dislike Dubai as a holiday destination, and as other posters have pointed out repeatedly, it is largely because of the way in which Dubai markets itself as a luxurious retail destination where holiday makers are offered a concentrated level of personal service - and if the principle reason for visiting Dubai is to benefit from the labour and services of underpaid migrant workers, then many people will find this concept unpleasant.

[Portofino]

Ubik - you cant even hold hands on the beach if you're not married.

[Portofino]

That might not be right. Certainly no shagging if you are not married.

[cingolimama]

Amber, could I just say that, though you say are unskilled you sound generous, curious and really intelligent? Precisely the kind of person I would like to know, and the kind of person we should have running organisations. Forgive me for perhaps making presumptions about your difficult situation with your disabled child, but I'd really like to encourage you to think about possibly re-training, because I feel that whatever you set your mind to, you'd be great at.

[AmberLeaf]

Thank you cingolimama that is very kind of you to say and I'm flattered

I was studying/retraining a few years back, but had to stop due to problems with my sons care.

I do hope to get back into it in the future, fingers crossed.

Thank you and thank you too to the other posters who have shown support for me in their posts.

[Portofino]

Individual consumers can't do much to change stuff With regards to manufacturing I fear. Samsung in Korea makes screens for everyone for example. Not just their branded product. Many IT products are made in factories we would not be happy to work in. We need government intervention to insist on foreign working practices.

Individuals CAN choose not to go to Dubai though.

[Bearbehind]

headsdiwnthumbsup I was not mocking amber because she is on a low income. I was making the point that it is very easy to have principles about something which you are unlikely to actually have to make a conscious decision to stand by or not as the situation is unlikely to arise.

The real test in the strength of a persons conviction in their principles can only be made on the choices they actually make, like chosing to consume goods made in factories where conditions are not ideal when your principles disagree with you doing so.

It is probably fair to say that many people discard their principles when necessary but it is supremely hypocritical to attempt to justify this, even the grounds of having no other choice, whilst chastising others for their supposed lack of principles.

Stones and glasshouses....

[Portofino]

That's total rubbish Bear. You cannot compare Amber buying cheap clothes with not liking Dubai. I repeat again, Dubai is rich and can afford to treat its workers properly. It doesn't. That is the issue. It is just derailing the thread to keep on and on at Amber's principles. As I said already, she has NO choice where the UK market sources its clothing.

[Bearbehind]

It might be rubbish in your opinion but I disagree. This thread isn't just about why people don't like Dubai, it is about why it gets singled out above other places and, to my mind, it is because people pick and choose their principles to suit their situation.

[BlingBang]

I think what bear is saying that it's easy to mock and be principled when that thing is out of your reach. Like private schools for example, many are against them on principle - but wonder how many would change their minds if they suddenly came into a shitload of money.

[DalePie]

Dubai is okay if your basically ignorant of the problems there.

• They treat women like complete rubbish.
• You can imagine how they treat gay people.
• They are basically trashing the environment there.
• Indian slavery.

Unfortunately, there are many shallow and vacuous people in the world. For that reason Dubai will continue to do well for itself.

[HeadsDownThumbsUp]

I think that's total horseshit, bear. You basically saying that poor people aren't allowed to have principles and that we can only make personal judgement about things that we, personally, can afford.

Right now, I can't afford to fly to China and spend £3000 eating rare Tiger penis. Does that mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the ethics of eating an endangered species? I will be able to afford to do that in October, when a financial arrangement falls into place - will I suddenly be entitled to an opinion then?

I agree that it is derailing the thread to harp on about Amber's principles (and your view that she is too poor to be entitled to them). If you don't agree with her opinion about Dubai, then try explaining why you think she is wrong, instead of attacking her background and finances.

[Bearbehind]

I am not 'harping on' about anyone's principles in particular, my point is much more generic.

I have not 'attacked' anyone's background or finances, I have simply pointed out the irony of people who's principles do not even extend as far as their everyday lives, thinking it is appropriate to condemn others for their choice of holiday destination.

I have not tried to argue that Dubai is perfect but it is a young country that is constantly evolving, unlike many of the embittered arm chair warriors on this thread.

blingbang has totally understood the point I am trying to make and her private school analogy is perfect in trying to illustrate why I find so much of this thread so hypocritical.

[HeadsDownThumbsUp]

Your point may be 'generic' but it is still nonsense.

Your position is that nobody is entitled to hold an opinion or a principle unless it is about something which they, personally, can afford.

This is ridiculous.