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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel uncomfortable about this financial decision - or am I just a control freak?

56 replies

HazzaB · 12/09/2013 11:19

I'm completely happy about how DH and I split our finances and what we each contribute. But we don't have any savings and that makes us both uncomfortable. DH's father, very kindly, transferred a studio flat into his name many years ago which we have recently sold. Profits from that sale are to be our nest egg for the future for our DCs - we're talking £15k. FIL has asked us to give him the £15k, originally because he needed to borrow it and would pay us back. Now he says because he'll invest it in stocks & shares and will be able to give us a better return than if we put it in ISAs etc. FIL is an ex-accountant but likes to fly 'below the radar' as he puts it and avoid tax. He has a criminal record from the 1970s for fraud. He's not clear about exactly what he'll do with this money or what our return would be. He says we can have it back whenever we ask for it. I want to just invest it as we decide even if that means less return. DH doesn't want to antagonise his father and says we should just give it to him because there's no way we wouldn't get it back and if his dad has asked us we should trust him. AIBU to feel uncomfortable about this? WWYD?

OP posts:
Bogeyface · 12/09/2013 12:08

You could be.

If he signed it over to you and then you signed the profit back to him then yes, it could be implied that you knew all along what he was up to.

The only safe thing to do is what has been suggested. Invest it, in your names, in safe investments with a reputable institution. ISAs are boring but they are safe.

Then, if anything did come to light about his affairs being dodgy, you can show that you had nothing to do with it, and was under the impression that once he had signed over the flat to you, that was the end of it.

Original poster
HazzaB · 12/09/2013 12:10

OK Bogeyface thanks. There's so much murk in our FIL's life and we have worked so hard to keep ourselves clear of it. I don't want to end up embroiled in anything over this. Thanks.

OP posts:
Bogeyface · 12/09/2013 12:11

And I would question the wisdom of your DH making this decision alone.

He is clearly under pressure from his father and may end up making further bad decisions if his father steers him that way. It really isnt worth risking your financial future in this way.

This is one of those situations where your opinion is valid and you should be firm about your wish to not be involved with FILs grand plan. Is the money in joint names?

Bogeyface · 12/09/2013 12:12

Another thought.

If FIL is so sure he can make massive profits, why isnt he investing his own money?

Dahlen · 12/09/2013 12:15

If it was me in your situation, I'd put my foot down firmly. And while, for the sake of family harmony and social nicety, I would do my utmost to find a 'nice' way of saying "thanks but no thanks" to FIL, I'd make it clear to my DH that it was a choice between me and his father.

If you have grounds to suspect something dodgy in this, you are complicit morally even if not legally. Even if you wash your hands of it, you might become legally involved as soon as that £15,000+profits comes back to you (if it does). If you accept money from a source you have doubts about, you could be found guilty. Are you confident in your ability to protest your innocence under oath in these circumstances?

FIL may not have any dodgy intentions, of course, but if that's the case then he won't mind giving you a clear breakdown of exactly what he plans to do, will he.

HatieKokpins · 12/09/2013 12:15

Half of that money is yours, btw.

jacks365 · 12/09/2013 12:18

Hazza if you just hand it back yes you could be implicated if it isn't above board because there is no logical reason to give it back. The flat was a gift, you maintained it etc, you paid cgtax so why would you hand any profit back? Oddly enough its things like that that ring alarm bells. When my ex was charged regarding some dubious business I was ok because my business transactions were clean, it was obvious that I wasn't hiding anything and everything was traceable.

peggyundercrackers · 12/09/2013 12:19

i dont think you will see money again, sounds like hes up to something he shouldnt be.

Original poster
HazzaB · 12/09/2013 12:29

Eeek. Scary stuff. Just spoke to DH during his lunch break and he's completely on board with me. Hadn't thought about half of these things but it's obvious when you stop to think for a second. Yes, half of the money is mine, half is his. DH said that there's no way we're giving it to his FIL, considering the implications. It's also obvious, when you think about it for a nanosecond, that there's no way we're ever getting it back or getting 'profits' on it anyway. I think FIL has gambled, lost, got himself into a sticky situation, quickly needs 15k to get out of it, knows we've just sold the flat. That's probably the reality. DH says we'll invest it ourselves, in our names or in our DCs names, and will put foot down with FIL. Thanks for the advice and support all.

OP posts:
DorisIsAPinkDragon · 12/09/2013 12:32

Just a small note. If you do for what ever reason decide to gift FIL the money make sure you remove the amount it cost you to maintain the flat and any additional expenses you incurred.

(You could make this the start of your savings pot?)

Personally if he wants you to invest it can he not advise you on where to put it IN YOUR (or DH's) name. He get's input you have ownership and avoid any possible further tax issues.

Bogeyface · 12/09/2013 12:33

I wouldnt invest it in your DC's names because if you need it then you wont be able to get it back and the whole point of savings is for emergencies. But I would put it somewhere in both names where you both have to sign to withdraw any of it. Not saying that your FIL would try and steal it but it makes sense to have it as safe as possible.

I have to admit that I wondered if FIL had lost his own money and fell onto this as a way to recoup his losses.

DorisIsAPinkDragon · 12/09/2013 12:33

x post Grin

glad yo are going to invest it!

Original poster
HazzaB · 12/09/2013 12:35

Ah Doris, I'd love it if he really did want us to invest us and advise on where best to put it. Sadly I don't think that's the case. Also equally sadly he's prepared to use it for his own purposes rather than help us build the financial future for his own grandsons. But there you go.

OP posts:
Original poster
HazzaB · 12/09/2013 12:38

Yeah good point Bogeyface. We'll put it in joint investments in our names. And then we can buy school shoes next autumn without lying awake feeling sick.

OP posts:
TrueStory · 12/09/2013 13:21

I am totally Shock at your father-in-law.

It was a gift. End of. You don't ever ask for a gift back! And you don't have to give it back. Bloody hell. If it were me I'd be annoyed.

But for family harmony I would say "thanks but no thanks, we've decided or already put it in blah, blah investments in the interests of grandchildren's needs for education, etc and not discuss it any further. Just keep saying thanks but no thanks.

specialsubject · 12/09/2013 13:23

stocks and shares NEVER guarantee a return. Might do well, might all disappear.

forget the rest because this bit is the truth.

Silverfoxballs · 12/09/2013 13:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RobotLover68 · 12/09/2013 13:31

My poor relative and husband have recently been conned out of their life savings by his own brother - he was running a Ponzi scheme - the conman even conned his own offspring out of 10s of thousands - it's heartbreaking, you're making the right decision

tablefor4 · 12/09/2013 13:34

TrueStory as PP said, it may be that FIL never intended it to be a true gift to Hazza and DH, but merely a way of hiding the flat from HMRC and others. Now that it has been sold via innocent Hazza the property is clean ("laundered" literally) and the money can be used by FIL for his own nefarious purposes.

Hazza - good to see you and DH are in agreement about how to proceed.

Inertia · 12/09/2013 13:34

Glad to hear your DH is being supportive and is on board.

I am not an accountant, but I would use some of the money to pay off the mortgage- look at how much you can pay without incurring a penalty. I would then put the remainder into ISAs in your and DH's names, assuming you don't already have ISAs for this year.

Then tell FIL you don't have the money anymore, it's already gone to pay off part of your mortgage.

Orianne · 12/09/2013 13:47

Isn't there a limit on cash gifts between family members, used to be £3000 then tax is incurred?

Oblomov · 12/09/2013 14:13

Glad you've had good advice OP. all sound well dodgey..

Original poster
HazzaB · 12/09/2013 14:45

Yeah, great advice, thanks all. DH and I will look at our options tonight for the money - ISAs, paying off some of the morgage etc. I think we'll (try to) just say to FIL "thanks for the offer but we've decided to do x with the money so our financial future is as stable as possible for the DCs". He won't like it and will spend hours trying to 'advise' us to the contrary but at least I know we're on firm ground. FIL causes us no end of trouble all the time...

OP posts:
TrueStory · 12/09/2013 15:17

Oh I seeeeee Table4For, I think I misunderstood; the "profits" were the gift, not the flat Hmm.

Good luck OP; stick to your guns.

Dahlen · 12/09/2013 15:19

Great result. Smile

Hope you can afford to take a little out of the money to enjoy a good night with your DH.