To think it is polite for people with buggies to fold them when a bus is busy

[SilverStreak7]

I suppose this will have mixed replies .

I am not talking of prams with sleeping babies in or even the buggies with sleeping toddlers in but those parents whom have a buggy with say a 4 year old in who is awake and who will not fold down said buggy when a single decker is getting very packed .

The other day I was on a bus and two buggies were on there , one had one of those boards at the back where an older child can stand (I do not know what they are called as never had one) , Now, the child was asleep but that is not the issue ,, The Mother watched an elderly lady slowly go by as this board was sticking out , then another pram tried to leave the bus and only at the last minute (after much struggling by the leaving Mother) did she push up the board ! Ive also seen people refuse to fold them up as a wheelchair wishes to get on .

Ah, go and stew in your own self-righteousness.

And there were rather too many posts asserting her entitlement to space over that of a wheelchair user

If you're talking about me, you're simply lying.

Where did I say "IIIIIII deserve to sit there, that space is miiiiine?"

I don't even have a young baby, so you can't argue that I said my child should take precedence.

Learn to read or have the goodness not to address me or my posts, please.

actually, why would you give this space to an elderly or mobility-impaired person - I should think they would be entitled to a seat, rather than standing in a space?

I'm pretty sure that in London if you've paid you can get a transfer ticket if you have to get off for a reason such as giving your space to a wheelchair user, is that right? If that's the case there is absolutely no reason for anyone not to make way (if they feel they can't fold up the pram, which I accept is not always the easiest thing to do in many situations) for a wheelchair (though equally, in my many years of using London Buses, nearly 4 with a child, I've never actually seen a wheelchair user either on a bus or wanting to board one. Did see several on the tube during the paralympics, including a situation where buggies were taking precedence in using a lift which seemed pretty bloody poor).

Fanjo - my point being that anyone who needs to use public transport with wheels would feel similarly stressed, although wheelchair users have such vlear priority one would hope it's easier for them as they are entitled.

For everyone else it's pot luck, or should be seen that way. That's how it should be- without question.

actually, why would you give this space to an elderly or mobility-impaired person - I should think they would be entitled to a seat, rather than standing in a space?

If they had a zimmer frame for example, they'd need the seat next to the wheelchair/buggy section so they could hold the frame in the section while seated.

Fair enough BLB

I never get people who won't fold.

I used to catch the bus every day with a double buggy; I still do now on occasion, with 4 kids (3 of which are disabled- one phobic of buses and people and has mobility issues himself).

You know what? I'd NEVER refuse to fold, no matter how hard it was for me.

Just like although I should get a blue badge I don't, so I suck it up and NEVER use the disabled parking spaces.

It's a matter of honour. I am far from uber mum- nervous, clumsy and permanently sleep deprived yes. Low on vision and socially clumsy. Trust me, if there's anything I can do, ANYONE else can manage it too.

One day I might need that space, and I hope I will have taught my boys well enough that their generation will have left it for me to use. it's self interest, just long term.

Wheelchair user
Person with mobility issues /behavioural or sensory deficit that causes them problems standing or coping
Elderly person or pregnant woman (my Dad would never sit when someone needed a seat more, he's 70 and fitter than I am)

and then....

I would always offer the chair I had to someone with any child, sleeping or not, if I had no child with me, and Dh and the NT boy follow a strict 'if someone is older than me they get precedence' code.

Basically..wheelchair users take priority...for the rest..just use common decency and common sense I think.

Sorry, forgot to add this to my last post...

I'm pretty sure that in London if you've paid you can get a transfer ticket if you have to get off for a reason such as giving your space to a wheelchair user, is that right?

No it's not right because you don't have to get off the bus. You can fold your buggy etc.

If you have a buggy that's non foldable, then that's the risk you take when entering a bus with it and using the wheelchair section.

It's much more sensible to use an easy fold stroller on buses imo.

And I disagree it's how it should be without question

Manners maketh man (and woman) and all that

Wheelchair user does NOT cover all disability or need. I'd die of shame before I allowed a pregnant woman to stand whilst I sat, or someone with another need if they explained it- my 10 year old ds sits on my lap on buses but looks NT (ish), yet falls if a bus wobbles. Therefore a lot of other people will be of similar need and if I can help I will. Dh or I will sit with ds3, and asd ds4, and the other will stand and offer our seat if needed.

DD posted this last year.
I'm fifteen. I use a wheelchair. Today I wanted to go to the city with my friends. Mum had an operation yesterday so can't drive me. My twin sister thought she could get me on the bus. I have come home. It's dry,but a bit windy and I started to get a bit too cold. The first two buses had buggies on and both of them were 'well, she's a kid just going to hang about in the city whilst we need to shop for our babies'. The third one didn't have a ramp. Yes, I could have waited for another but I get hypothermia. It's half eleven now and I'm only just warming up. My twin is typing this for me.

Do you know, Mum has been rattling on about this crap on Mumsnet for days, to be honest, I wish most of you would piss off and shut up. Mum feels she needs to defend me and somedays she does, today, she wouldn't have put up with the bus stuff, but I'm fifteen, and whilst I'm incredibly articulate, I find it difficult to have to state my case in front of thirty odd adult strangers on a bus. Why should I? Well, for all those reasons stated by the so called pompous gits on here, I get hypothermia, there is only one space, it's none of your business to question my motives for getting the bus. It's actually none of your business to open negotiations as to who should or should not stay on the bus.

Unlike Mum, I shan't be coming back to check on this. I am made aware on a daily basis that there are many, many rude and selfish adults out there, I don't need it in my home too, because that's what the internet does, it brings this sort of bullying into my home.

MrsOakenshield I use London buses all the time in a wheelchair. I shall wave at you. I dont use the tube because most of it isnt accessible. That is probably why you havent seen wheelchair users down there.

A 4 year old in a buggy may well be disabled. A lot of sn buggies look like ordinary buggies. They shouldn't have to fold.

Yes but then you'd tell the driver that you're unable to fold, wouldn't you?

Unfortunately not all drivers (or passengers ) listen to you. I had to get off the bus and miss an appointment with ds once, because a pram wouldn't fold . Ds was in a buggy and asleep, he has sn, but at the time was ina standard buggy. It was a 40 minute journey, so i knew that if I had woken him he would have screamed for the entire time. The annoying thing was the woman with the pram had the baby on her lap, and still wouldn't fold! Because ds was older, the driver said we would have to fold.

A regular scenario for me when DS was small and in a disabled buggy that people for some reason fail to accept as such and like to think big buggy, when buggy crew wouldn't fold was to ask the driver to wait until I was on and seated. Then I used to take DS out of his buggy lay him on the cold dirty floor, where he was at risk of further infection etc attached to his oxygen tank as he couldn't sit. Go back for the rest of his equipment and bag, go back then fold the disabled buggy with detached hood, footrest and apron as it couldn't be folded with these on, yes it took some time to organise and was a nightmare in winter but when you've got to get to the hospital on time what else could I do. I then used to sit back and allow the uproar of the mixed emotions and rights of the bus, then have to do it all again to get off. All I can say for those who drive of course is thankfully they revised the criteria for under 2s needing equipment, the first few years were a real struggle..........not that it's got much better but that's a different story. The problem is commen sense can't be read, you either have it or you don't, same with morals. Strangely it affects all walks of life, young, old, rich, poor.......

If the bus gets very busy then maybe i would fold my buggy,I would give up my seat for an elderly person or anyone who clearly needed it more than me.
other able bodies people should give up their seat too and not solely the responsibility of the person with a toddler and buggy.

Tbf I have folded my buggy before so my toddler can sit on a seat but then had no where to put my buggy.so then iv took up the same floor space and an extra seat for dc,sitting on my knee may be an option too.

I wouldn't ever wake my toddler either just to fold a buggy unless for a wheelchair user for all you know they have had a long day and need that sleep.

dawndonna i remember your daughter's post. I hope that hasn't happened again to her?

Also the buggy we have now, which is a sn one, doesn't fold, and the buses around here are a nightmare, some with no buggy or wheelchair spaces and some with such limited space that there is no access unless you can fold.

Due to some spectacularly bad planning on my part I ended up with a sleeping toddler and a loaded up buggy on a busy bus a few weeks ago. There was another mum on next to me with a double buggy -the type with one in front of another-. When we got to a stop with a lady pushing a young girl in a wheelchair the mum next to me immediately said "I can't fold the buggy up'. Well neither could I really, we could have walked to our destination by the time I'd got sorted so we (me and the DC's) got off. The driver validated the tickets so we could get on the next bus. It was simple enough to do and another bus turned up within minutes.
Don't see why it's a big deal myself..

UptheChimney
Unfortunately, a couple of times. Having said that, on her birthday her friends got together, got her on a bus without her chair and stuck her on another friends longboard (a longer skateboard for the aged among us) and pushed and pulled her round the city and to the pizza place, they all had a whale of a time and dd said it made her feel great because she felt people were looking because she was doing it for fun rather than necessity.

I was once refused on a bus with my buggy as there was a group of special need adults sitting in the space I needed to go, the driver and the carer that was with them asked them nicely to move.....the group all said no! I had to get off and wait on the next bus, at the time my DS wasn't walking, I had shopping that would have tipped the buggy the minute the buggy was empty, and I was also pregnant. Honestly could've cried waiting the 30 mins until the next bus came along. I'm just glad now my DH works closer to home so I have the car during the day.

Surely it's more simple than all this weird unspoken etiquette BS!

• wheelchairs have priority by law

If there are no wheelchairs needing to get on then do what you like, as long as you're not sticking out in the aisle like the woman the op is talking about

End of, surely?

I'm so glad I never realized people got their knickers in such a twist over this when I was living in a hostel with DS & catching the bus everyday as we were miles from the shops. I'd have most likely given up there & then

Wheelchair trumps buggy, of course. Even if you have to fold the buggy or get off and wait for the next bus.

I've seen bus drivers refuse to take soneone with a buggy as there were already 2 on board. Other times I've seen much drama as people have to fold buggies as no space.

I do agree with whoever said old ladies with trolleys are as bad tho! They can be lifted into the luggage space (I'm happy to help with this!) but noooooo they must sit at their owners side and get in the way, appsrentlt

Unfortunately, a couple of times

dawndonna I'm really sorry to read that. But great to hear of her happy day in town. The people with disabilities I've known have all had extraordinary personalities to counteract the way people have treated them.

I remember the thread your daughter posted on. There were several mummies vociferously arguing that their need to transport their children on the bus with "travel systems" which couldn't be got out of the way for a wheelchair user was more important than someone using a wheelchair.

FGS, in my day old fogey alert we had lightweight "city strollers" for the bus and train, which opened & shut as easily as an umbrella, and good old prams for walking.

It seems even bus companies are confused as to whether it is law or just good manners. After a bit of googling:

"Arriva

When not required by a wheelchair or scooter customer, the wheelchair space on accessible buses can be used by up to two buggies, prams or pushchairs. Use of the wheelchair space by any customer is subject at all times to enough space being available and the discretion of the driver.

During travel, buggies, prams, pushchairs, wheelchairs and scooters must be securely positioned so that they are stable and do not cause an obstruction or hazard to other customers. Drivers will advise of any circumstances where it is not possible to allow customers to travel safely; this includes their own health, that of the customer, other passengers, members of the public, or the security of the vehicle and its equipment.

The driver can require that pushchairs and all types of buggies are folded at busy times, or to request occupants of the designated area to move elsewhere on the vehicle if a customer wishes to board with a wheelchair or scooter. You should co-operate in allowing proper use of this space by vacating it if necessary in favour of a wheelchair or scooter user.

Stagecoach

Subject to space being available and the discretion of the driver, we will carry small prams and unfolded buggies on low floor buses within the designated area but only when it is not required by a passenger in a wheelchair or approved mobility scooter who has absolute priority by law. Prams and buggies must not block the aisle of the vehicle at any time.

You are, however, required by law to ensure that the designated wheelchair space is made available if a customer wishes to board with a wheelchair, a disabled buggy or approved mobility scooter.

You are required to co-operate in allowing proper use of the designated wheelchair space by vacating this space if it is required by a customer in a wheelchair, a disabled buggy or approved mobility scooter including repositioning small prams, folding any buggies and storing them in the luggage space. Failure to comply with this requirement will comprise a breach of Section 3 above and may lead to further action as set out in that Section.

EYMS

Can I take a pushchair or pram on board the bus?
When not occupied by wheelchairs, the space provided may be used for a pushchair. At busy times you may be asked to fold the pushchair. Priority should always be given to wheelchairs. For safety reasons pushchairs, shopping trolleys etc. must never block or partly block any gangway. Only pushchairs and baby buggies which can be folded are permitted on our buses. Non-folding pushchairs and prams cannot be carried.

First Group

Wheelchair users have priority use of the wheelchair space. If this is occupied with a buggy, standing passengers or otherwise full, and there is space elsewhere on the vehicle, the driver will ask that it is made free for a wheelchair user. Please note that the driver has no power to compel passengers to move in this way and is reliant upon the goodwill of the passengers concerned.

Unfortunately, if a fellow passenger refuses to move you will need to wait for the next bus."

But they do all make it clear that a wheelchair has priority in a wheelchair space.

(I chose these bus companies as they are ones I've heard of or used).

Most of the bus drivers where I live (first) won't even ask people to fold their buggies. They just say "already got 2 buggies on the bus, sorry" and drive off. I've complained several times but they just say it's the driver's discretion.

When I was a young mum, a very long time ago, you had to fold your pushchair when you got on a bus. There was no discussion about it and everyone did it as a matter of course. I didn't drive then and used a bus frequently with a baby and a toddler. Somehow we all managed. How times have changed.